We got the #3 pick. Discuss the possibilities. (7 Viewers)

[Pinwheel1]

Great. Which all NBA guys are coming, and how much more will we need to throw in to make up for the shitty 3rd pick that won’t amount to shit…apparently

I can't tell if you think #3 is "nothing special" or not. Do you? If it is then we keep it but building through the draft does not seem to help.
Even if we look at all the #1 picks in the draft since 2010......most of them did nothing to help the team who drafted them contend.

2021 / Paolo Banchero (Orlando Magic) | Full Draft

2021 | No. 1 pick — Cade Cunningham (Detroit Pistons) | Full Draft

2020 | No. 1 pick — Anthony Edwards (Minnesota Timberwolves) | Full Draft

2019 | No. 1 pick — Zion Williamson (New Orleans Pelicans) | Full Draft

2018 | No. 1 pick — Deandre Ayton (Phoenix Suns) | Full Draft

2017 | No. 1 pick — Markelle Fultz (Philadelphia 76ers) | Full Draft

2016 | No. 1 pick — Ben Simmons (Philadelphia 76ers) | Full Draft

2015 | No. 1 pick — Karl-Anthony Towns (Minnesota Timberwolves) | Full Draft

2014 | No. 1 pick — Andrew Wiggins (Cleveland Cavaliers) | Full Drafts

2013 | No. 1 pick — Anthony Bennett (Cleveland Cavaliers) | Full Draft

2012 | No. 1 pick — Anthony Davis (New Orleans Hornets) | Full Draft

2011 | No. 1 pick — Kyrie Irving (Cleveland Cavaliers) | Full Draft

2010 | No. 1 pick — John Wall (Washington Wizards) | Full Draft

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'd say the conclusion would be from very basic logic - Dame is better than players traded for a haul such as Gobert, and he was just selected to an All-NBA team - possibly after his best season ever.

Why do you think Dame would not be traded for a haul? I don't see any logic to support this argument.

Defense wins championships?
No available teams wanting Dame with youth and picks?
Wings and bigs are much more valuable?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I can't tell if you think #3 is "nothing special" or not. Do you? If it is then we keep it but building through the draft does not seem to help.
Even if we look at all the #1 picks in the draft since 2010......most of them did nothing to help their team contend.

2021 / Paolo Banchero (Orlando Magic) | Full Draft

2021 | No. 1 pick — Cade Cunningham (Detroit Pistons) | Full Draft

2020 | No. 1 pick — Anthony Edwards (Minnesota Timberwolves) | Full Draft

2019 | No. 1 pick — Zion Williamson (New Orleans Pelicans) | Full Draft

2018 | No. 1 pick — Deandre Ayton (Phoenix Suns) | Full Draft

2017 | No. 1 pick — Markelle Fultz (Philadelphia 76ers) | Full Draft

2016 | No. 1 pick — Ben Simmons (Philadelphia 76ers) | Full Draft

2015 | No. 1 pick — Karl-Anthony Towns (Minnesota Timberwolves) | Full Draft

2014 | No. 1 pick — Andrew Wiggins (Cleveland Cavaliers) | Full Drafts

2013 | No. 1 pick — Anthony Bennett (Cleveland Cavaliers) | Full Draft

2012 | No. 1 pick — Anthony Davis (New Orleans Hornets) | Full Draft

2011 | No. 1 pick — Kyrie Irving (Cleveland Cavaliers) | Full Draft

2010 | No. 1 pick — John Wall (Washington Wizards) | Full Draft

This franchise’s best player we’re all drafted by us

 

[Pinwheel1]

This franchise’s best player we’re all drafted by us

Not sure that helps the case to trade them then.

 

[Predator]

 

[TBpup]

Technically the video does not have Mannix saying the trade deadline, it alludes to August. But IMO I do think the trade deadline is more likely if we can't upgrade the roster. Teams might be more desperate to give up picks if they think Dame can get them over the hump. And Portland will be more willing to make a move if what they do this summer does not work out.

Correct, it's why I said by the Trade Deadline and not at the Trade Deadline. It could be anywhere before that. Typically, more trades take place closer to the deadline, but there might be something before the start of the season as well.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'd say the conclusion would be from very basic logic - Dame is better than players traded for a haul such as Gobert, and he was just selected to an All-NBA team - possibly after his best season ever.

Why do you think Dame would not be traded for a haul? I don't see any logic to support this argument.

Defense wins championships?
No available teams wanting Dame with youth and picks?
Wings and bigs are much more valuable?

I think the second one is the most significant. In order for Dame to be traded for a haul, there would need to be a team that would actually have a "haul" of assets to offer, and still feel like Dame's addition could elevate them to contender status.

I have yet to find said team.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think the second one is the most significant. In order for Dame to be traded for a haul, there would need to be a team that would actually have a "haul" of assets to offer, and still feel like Dame's addition could elevate them to contender status.

I have yet to find said team.

Not even Portland

 

[wizenheimer]

I merely liked that a member of the media showed love for Dame and said basically he could bring in a kings ransom for Portland if they make him available. I have only heard biased fans speculate on what kind of return Dame can bring. Ive suggested that teams that would be interested in him have little to offer and that the best move is for Dame to play out his contract in Portland while we draft BPA at 3. I'm not emotional about it at all. Personally I would love to draft Miller if Dame stays. Scoot if Dame gets traded. But we do not control which player of the two we will get. As for Mannix being an oracle, no. I don't think any writer or fan is an oracle. Never led you to believe that otherwise. Just said it was nice to hear a writer value Dame so highly.

that's fine, and he did praise Dame

I do think there's a big disconnect between praising Dame, talking about the Gobert trade, and then talking about Philly being a target. I've looked at what Philly has available and it's essentially Maxey and filler. That is light years away from what Utah got for Gobert...or what they got for Mitchell

 

[wizenheimer]

I'd say the conclusion would be from very basic logic - Dame is better than players traded for a haul such as Gobert, and he was just selected to an All-NBA team - possibly after his best season ever.

Why do you think Dame would not be traded for a haul? I don't see any logic to support this argument.

and you're wishful thinking fantasy logic is better?

give up the Houston fantasy...they won't trade for Dame when they can sign Harden without giving up a thing. And they have already been-there/done-that on pairing Harden with Westbrook

And I don't believe for a single micro-second the Knicks' front office would send out 4 unprotected first's and 3 unprotected swaps for Dame, not after signing Brunson (who wasn't that far below Dame statistically this season). Or that Brooklyn would load up Portland with unprotected 1st's, which are year's away, by the way

you're looking at the most lop-sided trade(s) recently and even adding to them for your Dame projections. Dame isn't 6'9-7'0, and he's not 27-29. He's 6'2 and he's 33; and he's owed 54M/year over the next 4 years including over 63M when he's 37. It's kind of ironic that many of you have been pointing at the 122M extension as a huge negative factor on the Blazers, using it to justify Dame-trades and criticize him for signing it, then turn right around and talk about his great value without mentioning that same huge negative factor of that extension he'd take with him

anyway, while you guys are fantasizing about Dame trades using Gobert's trade as the template, I've been looking at the trades of other aging guards the last 15 months...like, Harden:



or Kyrie:



or Chis Paul to the Suns:



notice how all those trades only have one protected first coming in, along with role players; not 7 unprotected first's or 6 or a 4th pick made 3 weeks before Dame can be traded plus a passel more unprotected picks and young players. Why are those trades the magic template for Dame trades when the trades of Harden, Kyrie, and CP3 aren't? where is the superior logic in that?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think the second one is the most significant. In order for Dame to be traded for a haul, there would need to be a team that would actually have a "haul" of assets to offer, and still feel like Dame's addition could elevate them to contender status.

I have yet to find said team.

It doesn't have to be a team we believe makes sense to acquire Dame, any more than it made sense for the Wolves to acquire Gobert, Mavs to acquire Irving, Rockets acquire Westbrook, Nets acquire Simmons, Lakers acquire Westbrook, etc. All that matters is a single team giving up assets for Dame.

We also don't know what rosters will look like in July or what owners decide to go all in now. What happens at the draft, free agency, and trades will drastically alter many teams position.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

and you're wishful thinking fantasy logic is better?

give up the Houston fantasy...they won't trade for Dame when they can sign Harden without giving up a thing. And they have already been-there/done-that on pairing Harden with Westbrook

And I don't believe for a single micro-second the Knicks' front office would send out 4 unprotected first's and 3 unprotected swaps for Dame, not after signing Brunson (who wasn't that far below Dame statistically this season). Or that Brooklyn would load up Portland with unprotected 1st's, which are year's away, by the way

you're looking at the most lop-sided trade(s) recently and even adding to them for your Dame projections. Dame isn't 6'9-7'0, and he's not 27-29. He's 6'2 and he's 33; and he's owed 54M/year over the next 4 years including over 63M when he's 37. It's kind of ironic that many of you have been pointing at the 122M extension as a huge negative factor on the Blazers, using it to justify Dame-trades and criticize him for signing it, then turn right around and talk about his great value without mentioning that same huge negative factor of that extension he'd take with him

anyway, while you guys are fantasizing about Dame trades using Gobert's trade as the template, I've been looking at the trades of other aging guards the last 15 months...like, Harden:

View attachment 55975

or Kyrie:

View attachment 55976

or Chis Paul to the Suns:

View attachment 55977

notice how all those trades only have one protected first coming in, along with role players; not 7 unprotected first's or 6 or a 4th pick made 3 weeks before Dame can be traded plus a passel more unprotected picks and young players. Why are those trades the magic template for Dame trades when the trades of Harden, Kyrie, and CP3 aren't? where is the superior logic in that?

Harden to Brooklyn is a good example of a Dame trade. Kyrie isn't as he has all sorts of issues.

I didn't say NY would give every pick asset unprotected for certain, I was just listing their draft equity to people who claim they don't have assets for a Dame trade, they have more than enough draft equity.

Brooklyn has good draft equity too.

Often the ultimate trade partner is an unexpected team we haven't identified.

I'm not really sure the point of some posters discounting what Dame could get in a trade. It's odd because it's many of the same posters claiming the Blazers shouldn't consider trading Dame, and that they should trade away the #3 pick for veterans that won't help the Blazers contend because of Dame's statements.

If Dame's trade value is shit then don't trade him until a better offer comes. Pretty simple. I can't imagine Cronin is going to ship out Dame, a move that will be linked to him forever, for one highly protected pick or an overpaid player or whatever shit return some posters are implying Dame is only worth.

 

[wizenheimer]

Harden to Brooklyn is a good example of a Dame trade. Kyrie isn't as he has all sorts of issues.

I didn't say NY would give every pick asset unprotect for certain, I was just listing their draft equity to people who claim they don't have assets for a Dame trade, they have more than enough draft equity.

Brooklyn has good draft equity too.

Often the ultimate trade partner is an unexpected team we haven't identified.

I'm not really sure the point of some posters discounting what Dame could get in a trade. It's odd because it's many of the same posters claiming the Blazers shouldn't consider trading Dame, and that they should trade away the #3 pick for veterans that won't help the Blazers contend because of Dames statements.

If Dames trade value is shit then don't trade him. Pretty simple. I can't imagine Cronin is going to ship out Dame for one highly protected pick or an overpaid player or whatever shit return some posters are claiming Dame is only worth.

ok now...that's more reasonable in my view, but there has been a lot of chatter here about "godfather packages" for Dame. And that pushes the trade Dame narrative pretty hard.

my assumption about a Dame trades starts with a very simple premise....after all this time if Cronin suddenly starts shopping Dame teams will know, absolutely, that Dame has demanded a trade. And the offers will be low. Cronin won't have any leverage, at all. Negotiating 101. There won't be any godfather offers coming in that situation

my next assumption is there will be pretty limited market for Dame because of his age and his contract...and of course other teams won't be valuing his franchise loyalty like Portland has. My guess is only 3-5 teams would have any interest, at most. I don't believe the Knicks will because of Brunson and the repeated failures of small back courts. Brooklyn might, but they won't be offering a lot of those far future picks, and the ones they do offer may have protections added; and I think they'd probably try hard to attach Simmons

Philly we've talked about. They don't have anywhere close to sufficient assets

Boston? I guess maybe. But if it was for Brown, I'm convinced Brown would walk away as UFA. And Boston's first's will be pretty late first's for a long time

Phoenix would like to replace CP3, but they just shipped out all their Dame-type assets for Durant....and they are in the West and I'd be close to certain the Blazers won't be shipping Dame within conference

 

[SharpesTriumph]

my assumption about a Dame trades starts with a very simple premise....after all this time if Cronin suddenly starts shopping Dame teams will know, absolutely, that Dame has demanded a trade. And the offers will be low. Cronin won't have any leverage, at all. Negotiating 101. There won't be any godfather offers coming in that situation

I don't buy this, how would any trades ever be done for fair value then? This is basic GM negotiating 101, and shouldn't be hard for Cronin if he is competent.

If your assumption above is true it implies Dame will never be tradable for fair value, again I don't agree with that.

 

[tykendo]

ok now...that's more reasonable in my view, but there has been a lot of chatter here about "godfather packages" for Dame. And that pushes the trade Dame narrative pretty hard.

my assumption about a Dame trades starts with a very simple premise....after all this time if Cronin suddenly starts shopping Dame teams will know, absolutely, that Dame has demanded a trade. And the offers will be low. Cronin won't have any leverage, at all. Negotiating 101. There won't be any godfather offers coming in that situation

my next assumption is there will be pretty limited market for Dame because of his age and his contract...and of course other teams won't be valuing his franchise loyalty like Portland has. My guess is only 3-5 teams would have any interest, at most. I don't believe the Knicks will because of Brunson and the repeated failures of small back courts. Brooklyn might, but they won't be offering a lot of those far future picks, and the ones they do offer may have protections added; and I think they'd probably try hard to attach Simmons

Philly we've talked about. They don't have anywhere close to sufficient assets

Boston? I guess maybe. But if it was for Brown, I'm convinced Brown would walk away as UFA. And Boston's first's will be pretty late first's for a long time

Phoenix would like to replace CP3, but they just shipped out all their Dame-type assets for Durant....and they are in the West and I'd be close to certain the Blazers won't be shipping Dame within conference

Exactly! Very well said. No teams that would want Dame have any ability to give back a quality "Haul" befit of Dame's abilities, and status. Picks with "No Protections" have all but been dealt away for these teams.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

my next assumption is there will be pretty limited market for Dame because of his age and his contract...and of course other teams won't be valuing his franchise loyalty like Portland has. My guess is only 3-5 teams would have any interest, at most. I don't believe the Knicks will because of Brunson and the repeated failures of small back courts. Brooklyn might, but they won't be offering a lot of those far future picks, and the ones they do offer may have protections added; and I think they'd probably try hard to attach Simmons

Philly we've talked about. They don't have anywhere close to sufficient assets

Boston? I guess maybe. But if it was for Brown, I'm convinced Brown would walk away as UFA. And Boston's first's will be pretty late first's for a long time

Phoenix would like to replace CP3, but they just shipped out all their Dame-type assets for Durant....and they are in the West and I'd be close to certain the Blazers won't be shipping Dame within conference

If you look at any one team sure there are reasons they shouldn't acquire Dame, you might ultimately be very right for some of these examples.

But there are likely other possibilities none of us have considered, and also new situations that may arrive depending on the draft free agency and trades. Only 1 team ultimately is needed for a trade.

Sacramento owner is impatient, maybe he thinks their now a piece away.

Dames hometown of Golden State has all their future picks, with Klay diminished maybe they see Dame as a replacement for Splash 2.0?

Maybe Toronto tries to make a run?

Blazers have plenty of time too for a Dame trade returning maximum value. What they don't have time on is picking in the draft, other teams trade offers, resigning Grant, etc. Even if they ultimately decide to explore trading Dame I highly doubt they do it until mid July if not much later.

 

[glazeduck]

Exactly! Very well said. No teams that would want Dame have any ability to give back a quality "Haul" befit of Dame's abilities, and status. Picks with "No Protections" have all but been dealt away for these teams.

Utah and BKN do. Supposedly those were 2 of the 5ish teams on Dame's list if he were to be traded.

Not advocating for it at all, but I think -- in this constant pissing match we call a message board, some UNDERvalue Dame's value across the league. If Dame wants out, there will be enough teams with significant enough interest that Cronin will have at least some leverage. This place has been a cesspool of extremes lately. None of this is black and white, folks. It's okay to acknowledge how much nuance and variability in all of this there is...

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't buy this, how would any trades ever be done for fair value then? This is basic GM negotiating 101, and shouldn't be hard for Cronin if he is competent.

If your assumption above is true it implies Dame will never be tradable for fair value, again I don't agree with that.

lol...you don't 'buy' what has been proven over and over....that being that once a star demands to be traded his current team loses leverage?

 

[HailBlazers]

Man you guys talk a lot.

 

[Strenuus]

Man you guys talk a lot.

"You guys talk for a living!"

 

[KingSpeed]

Fair enough. I still think embiid is untouchable this year no matter what, which is all were considering. Wether harden leaves or not doesn't change anything, IMO.

It all comes down to how good Philly thinks Scoot is. They may decide it’s better to rebuild around Scoot/Sharpe rather than hang onto Embiid with worse teammates now that Harden is gone. They may think Scoot is their next Iverson.

 

[HansenYang]

Man you guys talk a lot.

It must be all the extra estrogen coursing through their bodies...

(Sorry Wiz - I had to call you out here, based on your recent post in a different thread...)

 

[Strenuus]

It all comes down to how good Philly thinks Scoot is. They may decide it’s better to rebuild around Scoot/Sharpe rather than hang onto Embiid with worse teammates now that Harden is gone. They may think Scoot is their next Iverson.

That's a hell of a gamble right after the dude won the MVP and carried your team.

Embiid is not coming here.

 

[STOMP]

I agree on the first part and most the second part.

The big hang up I'm not following is the "need more and better deck chairs!!!". Starting over would be getting worse deck chairs that MIGHT turn out to be better. Jaylen Brown or Bridges would be better deck chairs. They're not Covington, Bazemore, Aminu, Harkless, Powell, etc.

It was a joke. Portland needs much more talent. Better starters and bench. They aren't a player away from contending unless that player is an MVP caliber player like Giannis and thats not happening. Brown doesn't get them there, neither does Siakam.

I liked the joke better

STOMP

 

[Tince]

It was a joke. Portland needs much more talent. Better starters and bench. They aren't a player away from contending unless that player is an MVP caliber player like Giannis and thats not happening. Brown doesn't get them there, neither does Siakam.

I liked the joke better

STOMP

I've always been really bad figuring out which posts around here are accidently jokes vs purposefully jokes. My bad!

 

[Tince]

Utah and BKN do. Supposedly those were 2 of the 5ish teams on Dame's list if he were to be traded.

Not advocating for it at all, but I think -- in this constant pissing match we call a message board, some UNDERvalue Dame's value across the league. If Dame wants out, there will be enough teams with significant enough interest that Cronin will have at least some leverage. This place has been a cesspool of extremes lately. None of this is black and white, folks. It's okay to acknowledge how much nuance and variability in all of this there is...

Do you believe Dame has a list of teams he wants to be traded to? He doesn't seem like a one foot in, one foot out, type of guy.

I'd guess that list came from someone, not named Dame, and it's pure speculation.

 

[Hoopguru]

Just went fishing with Dame and he’s not going any where. Wants to run for Mayor after his career in PDX is over.

 

[Tince]

Just went fishing with Dame and he’s not going any where. Wants to run for Mayor after his career in PDX is over.

Confirmation said fishing trip happened...

 

[julius]

Just went fishing with Dame and he’s not going any where. Wants to run for Mayor after his career in PDX is over.

Like, for real real, or "Dame drinks like a fish" real?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I'm OK with drafting and keeping Miller.
I'm OK with drafting and keeping Scoot.
I'm OK with trading #3+Simons for Brown.

I'm not sure how I feel about the other scenarios, though.