We got the #3 pick. Discuss the possibilities. (2 Viewers)

[wizenheimer]

I appreciate your insights and that's not sarcastic but I don't think any of the reasons you gave besides Zion's health hold any water at all. The other thing is, do we really think only the teams who have been rumored to have players we want are viable trade partners?

I think there's held water in Zion's behavior for certain. It's not just the pornstars or poor judgement in partners. It's the part of his character that doesn't have enough discipline to stay in shape, carry less weight, and do the work necessary to have a better chance at that good health. That goes to character. I think that the Blazers will weight that against the kind of excellent behavior they've had from their players for the last 15 years

as for if Zion is the only viable target. Maybe not. Portland could surprise. But I have no idea which high-level all-star player is secretly available

I don't think Dame is asking out anymore. I think Joe will take the best deal for pick 3 available tomorrow. It's what everything points to.

what if the "best deal" is a shitty deal? That's actually what every thing is pointing too right now, not that they'll accept a best offer, IMO. I think the Blazers have fielded a lot of shit offers and weak offers, and I'm not expecting those offers to get significantly better in the next 24 hours. Sure, I could be wrong but I don't believe there is much posturing or deflection coming out of the Blazers right now

 

[blazerkor]

I think there's held water in Zion's behavior for certain. It's not just the pornstars or poor judgement in partners. It's the part of his character that doesn't have enough discipline to stay in shape, carry less weight, and do the work necessary to have a better chance at that good health. That goes to character. I think that the Blazers will weight that against the kind of excellent behavior they've had from their players for the last 15 years

as for if Zion is the only viable target. Maybe not. Portland could surprise. But I have no idea which high-level all-star player is secretly available



what if the "best deal" is a shitty deal? That's actually what every thing is pointing too right now, IMO. I think the Blazers have fielded a lot of shit offers and weak offers, and I'm not expecting those offers to get significantly better in the next 24 hours. Sure, I could be wrong but I don't believe there is much posturing or deflection coming out of the Blazers right now

If the best deal is a shitty deal then I feel like Joe won't have done his job. There is serious value in this pick. There has to be a team out there willing to give better fitting fair compensation for it. The fact that there "hasn't been the right deal" last off season and this past trade deadline would tell me that if Joe uses that same tired excuse again he's either a terrible negotiator or like Olshey doesn't know how to gauge the real value of the assets he has in a way that allows him to build functional rosters.

 

[wizenheimer]

If the best deal is a shitty deal then I feel like Joe won't have done his job. .

LOL...ok, I'm out on this one

 

[blazerkor]

LOL...ok, I'm out on this one

Seriously though, how is it that other teams have been able to improve their rosters and build rosters that make sense but Joe just never has a dance partner to make that happen for us? If you're going to say that Olshey fucked him and we haven't had assets to make the roster make sense, I'd disagree but then I'd say now we have the third pick in a draft that everyone says is a three player draft... that has to have value. So why would it be that we can't find pieces that aren't redundant and make us a better team even if we have an asset with this much value?

I don't think it will be an issue because I think all of this keeping Scoot shit is a smoke screen designed to drive up value in deals we will take if they are the best available when we have to pull the trigger. If not though it is a pretty disturbing pattern of behavior for your GM to continuously say that he is going after win now moves and then turn around every time and tell the world he couldn't find one so he had to get the best assets and keep the roster flexible.

 

[JDC]

Watched some more Scoot full games today

Super powers are his change of direction and last couple steps to the rim. Huge hands. Able to explode off one foot without crazy momentum or space around the rim.

Doesn't glide or cover as much ground or have that suddenness that Derrick Rose had but very stylistically similar mid-range games. Mix of Rose and CP3 in that respect. A little bit of Donovan Mitchell too with the hard right hand drives into a step back.

Like CP, he's not a comfortable shooter off the ball. Seems to have the most success when he's driving right in pick and roll and gets an under so he can step back and get the ball back into his left hand before pulling up.

Makes some unbelievable kickout passes when he gets into the paint. His ability to explode, hang in the air and his big hands all help a lot here.

Wish he pushed the ball and pressured the rim more frequently. He's a nasty mid-range pull-up shooter, but he defaults to it too much.

Playmaking stood out when he got to the rim and kicked out, but I don't think his pick and roll feel overall is that great yet. Reading the defense in the time and space between coming off screen and the free throw line area in pick and roll needs a lot of work still. Think a lot of it has to do with defaulting to that mid-range pull up he likes so much. Gets caught in between being a playmaker and a scorer. Decision making not always crisp and seems to predetermined some of his passes based on what he thinks the help is going to do.

I'd be surprised if he's ever good defensively. His athleticism is a lot like Dame where he's much better in straight lines than he is laterally. And yes he has great length but he's also wide and kind of the boxy like a Dame, Mitchell or Sexton so despite the long arms my bet is the reach is still fairly poor which will hurt his ability to get good contests in or recover when he gets beat.

Easy all-star bet. The passing, defense and range on the jumper keep me from thinking he's a dead bang all NBA level point guard but he could definitely get there.

 

[LayneStaley]

I think the first time Scoot stuffs one in Lebron’s face all this whining will be a thing of the past.

 

[Stevenson]

You cannot choose to not to hire someone because they have a mental illness. It’s against the law.

I’m 99% positive that is incorrect. You can’t not hire someone because they are, say, black, or Jewish etc. but mental health is not a “protected class”.

 

[blazerkor]

I’m 99% positive that is incorrect. You can’t not hire someone because they are, say, black, or Jewish etc. but mental health is not a “protected class”.

You might want to google that and look into the Americans with Disabilities Act. Since 1973 mental health has been looked at like any other health issue and you can't discriminate due to those. I've literally hired over a dozen women who were pregnant and weren't our first choice because we didn't want to have to deal with the potential law suit. It's easy to fire someone because you can base it on their documented performance but when it comes to hiring someone you have to be extremely careful about discrimination or even the perception of discrimination.

 

[Paine Tablet]

You might want to google that and look into the Americans with Disabilities Act. Since 1973 mental health has been looked at like any other health issue and you can't discriminate due to those. I've literally hired over a dozen women who were pregnant and weren't our first choice because we didn't want to have to deal with the potential law suit. It's easy to fire someone because you can base it on their documented performance but when it comes to hiring someone you have to be extremely careful about discrimination or even the perception of discrimination.

That is why you enslave people instead of hiring them.

 

[wizenheimer]

Seriously though, how is it that other teams have been able to improve their rosters and build rosters that make sense but Joe just never has a dance partner to make that happen for us? If you're going to say that Olshey fucked him and we haven't had assets to make the roster make sense, I'd disagree but then I'd say now we have the third pick in a draft that everyone says is a three player draft... that has to have value. So why would it be that we can't find pieces that aren't redundant and make us a better team even if we have an asset with this much value?

I don't think it will be an issue because I think all of this keeping Scoot shit is a smoke screen designed to drive up value in deals we will take if they are the best available when we have to pull the trigger. If not though it is a pretty disturbing pattern of behavior for your GM to continuously say that he is going after win now moves and then turn around every time and tell the world he couldn't find one so he had to get the best assets and keep the roster flexible.

as I implied, I'm not going to go back and forth on stuff you're so adamant about or entrenched on

If all Cronin is getting for #3 are shitty or weak offers, I just don't see what he can do to force another team to come a long ways Portland's direction if they aren't willing. I guess he could hold his breath and stamp his feet

I do not know what is going to happen tomorrow. I'm doubtful the Blazers will trade the pick. I certainly could be wrong about that, but at this stage it sure looks like Zion is the only option. I don't believe the PG13 stuff

so then Zion vs what many people are saying is the best PG to come into the draft in 4 or 5 years and somebody who could be special. What are the honest odds that Zion can do in his next 4 seasons what he couldn't do in his first 4 seasons? What are acceptable played-game averages for him in order to invest a 3rd pick? I'd say 60 games a year, minimum, over the next 4 years and for him to be available for the playoffs. In his first 4 years he averaged 28 games. How long are the odds he can more than double that number. I'd say they were small

I think it would just end up being 4-5 years of revisited frustration. Deja Vu of Oden/Roy. If the Blazers want to chance it...OK. But I won't be optimistic about it working out. I've seen that movie several times before

 

[LayneStaley]

Scoot/Sharpe future isn’t a bad thing.

 

[LayneStaley]

I keep thinking if we trade it’s with Hou to switch picks. I honestly think we like Amen the best. What would it cost them hypothetically? Sengun? Eason? Picks?

If we really want Amen I’d be tempted by a combo of those guys and a future 1.

 

[TBpup]

I keep thinking if we trade it’s with Hou to switch picks. I honestly think we like Amen the best. What would it cost them hypothetically? Sengun? Eason? Picks?

If we really want Amen I’d be tempted by a combo of those guys and a future 1.

If that is the way they want to go, that wouldn't be a bad return.

 

[KingSpeed]

No those were two players who you could have built around together. They both had size... Clyde was plenty big to play the three. Both of those guys were wings and both of the guys we're talking about being incompatible are ball dominant 1s.

Have you ever seen two ball dominant lead guards try to co-exist?

Yes. Chris Paul and James Harden going 65-17 in their first season together. Might’ve won it all if Paul didn’t get hurt.

 

[KingSpeed]

I’m 99% positive that is incorrect. You can’t not hire someone because they are, say, black, or Jewish etc. but mental health is not a “protected class”.

It absolutely is. The Americans with Disabilities Act includes mental illness as a disability . People with disabilities are protected. I know this because I was just tested on it at work.

https://www.ada.gov/

 

[KingSpeed]

as I implied, I'm not going to go back and forth on stuff you're so adamant about or entrenched on

If all Cronin is getting for #3 are shitty or weak offers, I just don't see what he can do to force another team to come a long ways Portland's direction if they aren't willing. I guess he could hold his breath and stamp his feet

I do not know what is going to happen tomorrow. I'm doubtful the Blazers will trade the pick. I certainly could be wrong about that, but at this stage it sure looks like Zion is the only option. I don't believe the PG13 stuff

so then Zion vs what many people are saying is the best PG to come into the draft in 4 or 5 years and somebody who could be special. What are the honest odds that Zion can do in his next 4 seasons what he couldn't do in his first 4 seasons? What are acceptable played-game averages for him in order to invest a 3rd pick? I'd say 60 games a year, minimum, over the next 4 years and for him to be available for the playoffs. In his first 4 years he averaged 28 games. How long are the odds he can more than double that number. I'd say they were small

I think it would just end up being 4-5 years of revisited frustration. Deja Vu of Oden/Roy. If the Blazers want to chance it...OK. But I won't be optimistic about it working out. I've seen that movie several times before

Zion is way more productive than Roy and Oden ever were.

 

[KingSpeed]

I keep thinking if we trade it’s with Hou to switch picks. I honestly think we like Amen the best. What would it cost them hypothetically? Sengun? Eason? Picks?

If we really want Amen I’d be tempted by a combo of those guys and a future 1.

No way they give us Sengun. They think he’s the next Jokic.

 

[wizenheimer]

Zion is way more productive than Roy and Oden ever were.

do you deliberately misinterpret context, or is it instinctive?

I was talking about availability, and that was obvious. In his first 4 seasons, Zion played in 114 games.. In Brandon Roy's first 4 seasons, he played 283 games. 283 vs 114....availability

 

[Kano John]

You might want to google that and look into the Americans with Disabilities Act. Since 1973 mental health has been looked at like any other health issue and you can't discriminate due to those. I've literally hired over a dozen women who were pregnant and weren't our first choice because we didn't want to have to deal with the potential law suit. It's easy to fire someone because you can base it on their documented performance but when it comes to hiring someone you have to be extremely careful about discrimination or even the perception of discrimination.

A person who has a mental health issue is not required to disclose this when applying for employment and if said person otherwise qualifies there should not be an issue. If however a mental health issue prevents an individual from qualifying ie; inability to perform required job performance then the employer is not required to hire them.

 

[blazerkor]

as I implied, I'm not going to go back and forth on stuff you're so adamant about or entrenched on

If all Cronin is getting for #3 are shitty or weak offers, I just don't see what he can do to force another team to come a long ways Portland's direction if they aren't willing. I guess he could hold his breath and stamp his feet

I do not know what is going to happen tomorrow. I'm doubtful the Blazers will trade the pick. I certainly could be wrong about that, but at this stage it sure looks like Zion is the only option. I don't believe the PG13 stuff

so then Zion vs what many people are saying is the best PG to come into the draft in 4 or 5 years and somebody who could be special. What are the honest odds that Zion can do in his next 4 seasons what he couldn't do in his first 4 seasons? What are acceptable played-game averages for him in order to invest a 3rd pick? I'd say 60 games a year, minimum, over the next 4 years and for him to be available for the playoffs. In his first 4 years he averaged 28 games. How long are the odds he can more than double that number. I'd say they were small

I think it would just end up being 4-5 years of revisited frustration. Deja Vu of Oden/Roy. If the Blazers want to chance it...OK. But I won't be optimistic about it working out. I've seen that movie several times before

Like I said earlier I appreciate your perspective even when it differs from mine. To answer your questions I hope Zion does better and think he would have greater odds doing better in a new location especially with a teammate like Dame... I don't know what odds I'd give him but he would have to play in 60 games a season and be available for the playoffs in order for a trade including the third pick to pay off... if we won a championship he'd only really have to do it once for it to pay off though. Again I'm not sure of the odds but I'm hoping they are high and I think being here with Dame and Chauncey being so positive and such professionals could really elevate whatever those odds are. He doesn't have the structural problems with his body that GO and BRoy had but I hear what you're saying if he continued to be unavailable to play that would be really shitty. I think it's worth the swing on Zion though.

If we have a roster that makes no sense again this season and it wastes another season of Dame's prime and it's all because our GM is risk averse or overvalues what he has and has an inability to project how what others have might become better in this situation, I'll be upset.

 

[BankTeller]

I keep thinking if we trade it’s with Hou to switch picks. I honestly think we like Amen the best. What would it cost them hypothetically? Sengun? Eason? Picks?

If we really want Amen I’d be tempted by a combo of those guys and a future 1.

From what I read, it seems like the Rockets like Amen enough that they are comfortable staying put and grabbing Amen #4, but would be happy with Scoot or Brandon dropping to them.

Eason + #4 + #20 for #3 might even be too much of an ask. It’s possible they only do #4 and #20 for #3.

 

[illmatic99]

Starts around 14 min mark. Jake is pretty locked in.

 

[blazerkor]

Starts around 14 min mark. Jake is pretty locked in.

The idea that we're just going to try and split the baby is so foolish... either do everything you can to win with Dame or fucking trade him and get the rebuild going quicker. What has me really angry is the host of this interview laughing as she talks about how it doesn't make sense that Dame mentors young players on the off season but doesn't want to do that anymore on his team. What a fucking moron. He can be altruistic with his free time and still want to be competitive with his career.

And it mostly makes me sick because Jake Fischer has a great track record and Joe Cronin has a track record of poorly balanced rosters and being extremely conservative to the point of being timid as a GM on the trade market. If I have to listen to him after this draft say, "We wanted to make the big moves but they weren't there so we had to go into asset acquisition mode." I'm going to be furious but hey who the fuck really cares.

 

[blazerkor]

Starts around 14 min mark. Jake is pretty locked in.

I also find it problematic that Fischer says that we will only trade pick three for a top 20 guy. How about two top 30 or 35 guys and draft considerations. I think the idea that it's superstar or bust along with the idea that we're definitely keeping Dame regardless is not good.

 

[Driew]

I also find it problematic that Fischer says that we will only trade pick three for a top 20 guy. How about two top 30 or 35 guys and draft considerations. I think the idea that it's superstar or bust along with the idea that we're definitely keeping Dame regardless is not good.

What team has two top 30 or 35 guys that they'll trade for the third pick and our scraps? lol

 

[illmatic99]

The idea that we're just going to try and split the baby is so foolish... either do everything you can to win with Dame or fucking trade him and get the rebuild going quicker. What has me really angry is the host of this interview laughing as she talks about how it doesn't make sense that Dame mentors young players on the off season but doesn't want to do that anymore on his team. What a fucking moron. He can be altruistic with his free time and still want to be competitive with his career.

And it mostly makes me sick because Jake Fischer has a great track record and Joe Cronin has a track record of poorly balanced rosters and being extremely conservative to the point of being timid as a GM on the trade market. If I have to listen to him after this draft say, "We wanted to make the big moves but they weren't there so we had to go into asset acquisition mode." I'm going to be furious but hey who the fuck really cares.

easy there tiger. save your flameouts til the FA period ends.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The idea that we're just going to try and split the baby is so foolish... either do everything you can to win with Dame or fucking trade him and get the rebuild going quicker. What has me really angry is the host of this interview laughing as she talks about how it doesn't make sense that Dame mentors young players on the off season but doesn't want to do that anymore on his team. What a fucking moron. He can be altruistic with his free time and still want to be competitive with his career.

And it mostly makes me sick because Jake Fischer has a great track record and Joe Cronin has a track record of poorly balanced rosters and being extremely conservative to the point of being timid as a GM on the trade market. If I have to listen to him after this draft say, "We wanted to make the big moves but they weren't there so we had to go into asset acquisition mode." I'm going to be furious but hey who the fuck really cares.

There's no reason at all to give Scoot away for anything less than a player we want. His value is only going to grow and stars will ask out of their situations as the season goes on. Move Scoot then. He's a generational point guard. If you don't like what you're being offered, don't give him up.

 

[Tince]

How anyone is getting upset over reports, of which 90% are water-carrying smokescreens, while nothing good/bad has happened, is beyond me.

 

[illmatic99]

this guy is an idiot.



he's gonna fuck around and end up getting passed at 2.

 

[RR7]

The idea that we're just going to try and split the baby is so foolish... either do everything you can to win with Dame or fucking trade him and get the rebuild going quicker. What has me really angry is the host of this interview laughing as she talks about how it doesn't make sense that Dame mentors young players on the off season but doesn't want to do that anymore on his team. What a fucking moron. He can be altruistic with his free time and still want to be competitive with his career.

And it mostly makes me sick because Jake Fischer has a great track record and Joe Cronin has a track record of poorly balanced rosters and being extremely conservative to the point of being timid as a GM on the trade market. If I have to listen to him after this draft say, "We wanted to make the big moves but they weren't there so we had to go into asset acquisition mode." I'm going to be furious but hey who the fuck really cares.

You're so normal and rational during 95% of the year, and trade deadline and draft/free agency hits and...

You don't know offers being made. Do you want him to just accept anything? Obviously not, since you expect 2 top 35 players. Who is offering that? If teams aren't offering that, why should he move it? Why move Dame just because if Dame is ok with the other moves he makes? All fired up again, it seems