What it will take to get Stotts fired?

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You know none of this is mutually exclusive right...? Dame can be very, very good. - Though not Prime Lebron good - Stotts can be ok at some things, very bad at others - Olshey hasn’t given Dame or Stotts a great cast to work with - Dame’s height and reaction to traps can be a problem -

 

[brooklynballer]

So you think Dame is THE best player in the leagues and Nurk is all-star status like Love was? If you rate those guys that high, then I understand why you are dissapointed.

Stotts took a roster with Aminu, Harkless, Kanter, Meyers, and Curry (and no Nurk) to the WCF last year. None of those players who left have lit the world on fire this year under a new coach have they? If he didn't get the most out of those guys, then neither has any of thier coaches this year.

Again, of the 30 players or so who have left Portland/Stotts over the past few years, how many of them have been significantly better on their new teams? 10%? 20%? If Stotts was garbage, I'd assume that number would be at 80% or more.

Stotts is garbage. Worse than garbage actually. So based on your thinking, only teams with the top player in the league win championships? Got it. I’ve got the 2011 Dallas Mavericks on line 1.

Also to your point about Love being an all star, if Nurkic was in the East he’d be an all star right now too. CJ likely would be as well.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on Stotts. I can’t stand him and clearly you can’t get enough of him and his ridiculous ‘coaching’ philosophy.

 

[jlprk]

Time to return to what the status quoers were listing. The criteria or events they would require to fire Stotts, who has the 4th-longest current head coaching tenure in the NBA.

Oops. They weren't following the thread title. Just attacking it.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

@OP Stotts isnt going anywhere unless there’s pressure from Jody to do better. Then either NO will fire Stotts to save his job, or NO will get fired and the firing will flow downhill.

 

[Tince]

Stotts is garbage. Worse than garbage actually. So based on your thinking, only teams with the top player in the league win championships? Got it. I’ve got the 2011 Dallas Mavericks on line 1.

Also to your point about Love being an all star, if Nurkic was in the East he’d be an all star right now too. CJ likely would be as well.

Do you have a list of players that have left Portland under Stotts that have got significantly better?

Dallas is one of the better cases you could point to. Though Dirk was an MVP in this league. And guess who was an assistant coach on that team? Stotts.

 

[Tince]

@OP Stotts isnt going anywhere unless there’s pressure from Jody to do better. Then either NO will fire Stotts to save his job, or NO will get fired and the firing will flow downhill.

I agree with this. Jodi doesn't strike me as someone who insists on winning championships, but someone who wants to make some money and have a team that represents well in the community.

Olshey firing Stotts would be very tricky because he'd have to do it without pissing off Dame. Ultimately, I think Dame would be accepting of most any coach and would get over the Stotts firing, but I don't think Dame would sign off on it and I think he'd be pissed if Olshey did it without asking Dame to sign off on it. Do you think Dame is more loyal to Stotts or Olshey?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I think this is a pretty outdated view of NBA coaching. NBA coaches aren't like college coaches (which is why most college coaches crash and burn in the NBA). The best coaches, from Phil Jackson on, install a system, plug in players that they can trust, and then take a hands-off approach for the most part. The martinet, call plays every time down the court coach is a thing of the past. Every once in a while a coach tries it and he doesn't last. Boylen comes to mind.

Also: our "undisciplined" offense was the best in the bubble until it ran into a Lakers team that has a fantastic defense built around two all-league defenders.

This is the thing about Stotts: he's actually been amazingly adaptable in his time with us. When we've had the personnel, we've had really good defenses, even with a backcourt of Lillard and McCollum. But this year, on top of Lillard and McCollum, we had lead-footed Whiteside and old-as-dirt Melo. Pick who you think is the best defensive coach in history and see if he can make a silk purse out of THAT sow's arse. So what could he do but try to maximize our offense? And seems like he did a pretty damn good job of that, given our limitations.

We disagree. The best coaches instill discipline in their team. Look at Nurse, Pop, etc. Stotts was so great that we were last in the league in assists all season? Whiteside had a career year. Miami wasn't last in the league on defense last year. A lot of other teams have a LOT less than us and they are outplaying us in major areas.

We can keep making excuses after 8 seasons but Stotts ain't never taking us anywhere and there's nothing that will change your mind because there will always be injuries and roster deficiencies... LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Do you have a list of players that have left Portland under Stotts that have got significantly better?

Dallas is one of the better cases you could point to. Though Dirk was an MVP in this league. And guess who was an assistant coach on that team? Stotts.

You're starting to finally think. I think Stotts would be a good assistant. We agree that's his best position.

 

[Tince]

You're starting to finally think. I think Stotts would be a good assistant. We agree that's his best position.

I'm glad you're starting to realize I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Tince]

We disagree. The best coaches instill discipline in their team. Look at Nurse, Pop, etc. Stotts was so great that we were last in the league in assists all season? Whiteside had a career year. Miami wasn't last in the league on defense last year. A lot of other teams have a LOT less than us and they are outplaying us in major areas.

We can keep making excuses after 8 seasons but Stotts ain't never taking us anywhere and there's nothing that will change your mind because there will always be injuries and roster deficiencies... LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM.

If discipline is the key component to success, does that mean after all these years of coaching Pop forgot how to instill discipline this season? It has nothing to do with the fact that this was one of the least talented rosters he's ever coached, right?

 

[jlprk]

@OP Stotts isnt going anywhere unless there’s pressure from Jody to do better. Then either NO will fire Stotts to save his job, or NO will get fired and the firing will flow downhill.

Paul Allen died at age 65. If Jody Allen (61) dies, who will inherit the team? Her children Duncan Patton (31), Gardner Patton (26) and Faye Patton (23).

That's when Stotts and Olshey will be replaced by their kids. The team will be a madhouse.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

If discipline is the key component to success, does that mean after all these years of coaching Pop forgot how to instill discipline this season? It has nothing to do with the fact that this was one of the least talented rosters he's ever coached, right?

Body of work. Obviously. You're developing scoliosis from how much you're bending over backwards to defend Stotts. Suspending logic doesn't make the argument more valid.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Paul Allen died at age 65. If Jody Allen (61) dies, who will inherit the team? Her children Duncan Patton (31), Gardner Patton (26) and Faye Patton (23).

That's when Stotts and Olshey will be replaced by their kids. The team will be a madhouse.

If JA passes I'm sure you will step in to be the mother figure those kids need.

 

[wizenheimer]

We'd be down 0-3 in this series with Playoff P as our 2nd option.

Portland wouldn't have PG13

they'd very likely have:

• Danilo Gallinari
• Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
• 2021 first round pick (?-?)
• 2022 first round pick (?-?)
• first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023-25, unprotected in 2026) (?-?)
• Blazer option to swap 2023 first round pick with Clippers (?-?)
• 2024 first round pick (?-?)
• Blazer option to swap 2025 first round pick with Clippers (?-?)
• 2026 first round pick (?-?)

in other words, they'd have a 6'5 starting SG who plays good defense and fits better with Dame than CJ, and is arguably as good as CJ while having turned 22 a month ago; a starting level SF/PF who is a solid rebounder and shoots over 40% on three's; and 5 extra 1st round picks plus options to swap two more

they'd have a better present and a much better future

unless of course Neil Olshey isn't as good a GM as Presti

 

[brooklynballer]

Do you have a list of players that have left Portland under Stotts that have got significantly better?

Dallas is one of the better cases you could point to. Though Dirk was an MVP in this league. And guess who was an assistant coach on that team? Stotts.

And that’s exactly where he belongs - as an assistant.

And please stop asking about what players left Portland and got significantly better - it’s such a hollow argument. Let’s flip that, what players came to Portland and got significantly better? Evan Turner? Nope. Caleb Swanigan? Nope. Zach Collins? Nope, and in fact he looks like he’s regressed in his time in Portland. Melo? Nope. His raw numbers are about on par with where was in his last two stints in Hou and OKC, except with a lower PER and Net Rtg than his OKC days. Still a below average NBA player. Whiteside? Everyone can agree that he put up some gaudy stats this season, but they’re not even the best of his career. Hood? Nope, his PER is about on par with previous seasons in CLE and UTA. So who’s gotten better under Stotts? And don’t you dare say Nurk, CJ or Dame - those players have matured into those roles and that would have happened with or without Stotts.

Two recent examples of players who got better away from Stotts. Seth Curry went from an 11 PER (below average NBA player) under Stotts to almost 16 PER this season (above average NBA player). Will Barton went from an 8 PER (borderline should be out of the league) to almost a 16 PER (again, above average) in the same season he was traded from POR to DEN and has only gotten better since. I’m sure I can find lots of other examples too.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Portland wouldn't have PG13

they'd very likely have:

• Danilo Gallinari
• Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
• 2021 first round pick (?-?)
• 2022 first round pick (?-?)
• first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023-25, unprotected in 2026) (?-?)
• Blazer option to swap 2023 first round pick with Clippers (?-?)
• 2024 first round pick (?-?)
• Blazer option to swap 2025 first round pick with Clippers (?-?)
• 2026 first round pick (?-?)

in other words, they'd have a 6'5 starting SG who plays good defense and fits better with Dame than CJ, and is arguably as good as CJ while having turned 22 a month ago; a starting level SF/PF who is a solid rebounder and shoots over 40% on three's; and 5 extra 1st round picks plus options to swap two more

they'd have a better present and a much better future

unless of course Neil Olshey isn't as good a GM as Presti

Is this like a butterfly effect scenario, if he's traded to Portland, who knows how that alters his career, if he asks for a trade from OKC, Dame certainly wouldn't have made a 35 footer in his face to end the series.

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree with this. Jodi doesn't strike me as someone who insists on winning championships, but someone who wants to make some money and have a team that represents well in the community.

It's such a unique situation where an owner dies and someone who really isn't/hasn't been invested in sports or the team takes over. I honestly don't know much about Jody. I remember initially everyone thought she'd sell because she wasn't a basketball fanatic like Paul was.

But my fear is that she won't want to rock the boat because this wasn't her passion and because she might not really have many opinions, at least not initially, about what she wants for the team long term. Usually when someone buys a sports franchise they go in with their own ideas and they want to mold the team into their vision. Paul certainly did that when he took over.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

You know none of this is mutually exclusive right...? Dame can be very, very good. - Though not Prime Lebron good - Stotts can be ok at some things, very bad at others - Olshey hasn’t given Dame or Stotts a great cast to work with - Dame’s height and reaction to traps can be a problem -

Reality is complicated. The problem starts when this complexity leads to analysis paralysis.

 

[beast blazer]

Dame would have to get mad at him

 

[Tince]

And that’s exactly where he belongs - as an assistant.

And please stop asking about what players left Portland and got significantly better - it’s such a hollow argument. Let’s flip that, what players came to Portland and got significantly better?

Aminu and Harkless got better, did they not? So you'd assume a bad coach would have more players that got better after they left, an average coach would have a similar amount that got better/worse, and a good coach would have more than got better after arriving to play for them. The fact that you can't name 1 out of all the players is kinda surprising, isn't it? Out of 30+ players, you should be able to name a bunch that blossomed once they got away from a bad coach.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Aminu and Harkless got better, did they not? So you'd assume a bad coach would have more players that got better after they left, an average coach would have a similar amount that got better/worse, and a good coach would have more than got better after arriving to play for them. The fact that you can't name 1 out of all the players is kinda surprising, isn't it? Out of 30+ players, you should be able to name a bunch that blossomed once they got away from a bad coach.

I actually went and checked on Moe and Aminu, their ‘growth’ was pretty minuscule in terms of PER. Now maybe they got better in other ways, I didnt check.

 

[Tince]

Body of work. Obviously. You're developing scoliosis from how much you're bending over backwards to defend Stotts. Suspending logic doesn't make the argument more valid.

Like others, when I try to use your own criteria for determining if Stotts is an ok coach on another coach, you consider it suspending logic. Basically, you guys want one criteria to judge our coach, but think that same logic when used against another coach is meaningless. That's kinda weird isn't? If the criteria was so solid, it should easily apply to the other coaches as well.

 

[Tince]

I actually went and checked on Moe and Aminu, their ‘growth’ was pretty minuscule in terms of PER. Now maybe they got better in other ways, I didnt check.

Could be right, I don't always use PER as it showed Dame and Nurk to be nearly of equal value last season. Something I don't think many Blazer fans would agree with. Though, I don't have a singular metric that I use that I would claim is far superior.

Nurks PER sure jumped after coming to Portland, another guy who I would say improved coming into our system. Whiteside had his highest PER in the last 4 season since joining Portland.

Again, I'm not saying Stotts is the #1 coach in the NBA, makes every player better. I'm saying, the number of players who see a jump under him vs leave and go on to explode elsewhere is more in his favor.

 

[tester551]

Again, I'm not saying Stotts is the #1 coach in the NBA, makes every player better. I'm saying, the number of players who see a jump under him vs leave and go on to explode elsewhere is more in his favor.

I don't believe that would withstand any statistical scrutiny.

 

[Tince]

I don't believe that would withstand any statistical scrutiny.

It would be easy to prove me wrong. I've asked a lot of people to do it, but nobody has yet. Can you?

 

[Bruno_Sabino]

Another embarrassing loss in the playoffs on Stotts.

guess what: Check his playoff record with loss with 10+ plus points. He has a ton and Dame have the same because only played with Stotts.

 

[Bruno_Sabino]

An NBA finals roster that consistently doesn't make it out of the 2nd round would certainly get him fired.

A roster that is usually 4-9th in the West in terms of talent, always makes the playoffs, and wins a playoff series every other year; added with the fact that the best player in franchise history thinks he's a great coach means his job is fairly safe. Rightfully so.

Best comment

 

[brooklynballer]

Aminu and Harkless got better, did they not? So you'd assume a bad coach would have more players that got better after they left, an average coach would have a similar amount that got better/worse, and a good coach would have more than got better after arriving to play for them. The fact that you can't name 1 out of all the players is kinda surprising, isn't it? Out of 30+ players, you should be able to name a bunch that blossomed once they got away from a bad coach.

I named two. Are you blind? Or do you have a reading comprehension issue? Or do you just choose to ignore parts of my post that don’t align with your narrative? Anyways, I’m done listening to your nonsensical drivel. You haven’t made one legitimate argument for why Stotts should keep his job or why he is even an average NBA coach, so make your case to someone who gives a shit.

 

[brooklynballer]

Best comment

I don’t think he understands sarcasm. Whoosh!

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I don't know what's lower, the president's IQ or Terry Stotts' playoff winning percentage.