Politics What sides of Political fence do you sit on?

[barfo]

I can't believe anyone would attack the Koch brothers

Life's rough on all of us.

Sometimes people will even shorten quotes to change their meaning.

barfo

 

[dviss1]

A

Making shit up?

Laughable.

Anyone who thinks socialism works is delusional. It's failed miserably and turned into far worse where tried than any capitalistic society.

As Margaret Thatcher once said, "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

When you do, people line up for cheese distributions at the nearest government warehouse. And the cheese tastes like shit, if you can even get any.

Democratic socialism is working in:

Finland
Germany (who didn't feel ANY affects during the "global economic downturn")
Sweden
Norway
Switzerland

I could go on but I'd rather say your Liberterianism has NEVER worked anywhere... Try Somalia where there is no government....

 

[barfo]

When you do, people line up for cheese distributions at the nearest government warehouse. And the cheese tastes like shit, if you can even get any.

I was once on the jury for a guy who broke into the government warehouse to steal the free cheese.

barfo

 

[dviss1]

I don't think anyone should get "free" money. There is no such thing. It comes from someone's pocket.

I can't believe anyone would attack the Koch brothers and not attack Steyer and his kind for the exact same practices.

Yep. The subsides GIVEN to big oil and big agro come out of your pocket and mine.

Let's go get our fuckin money is what I say...

 

[dviss1]

OMG the conspiracy theories do exist, protestations to the contrary.

This is the God's honest truth. Bernie has NOTHING to gain by lying about this. Only something to lose by telling the truth:

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Making shit up?

Laughable.

Anyone who thinks socialism works is delusional. It's failed miserably and turned into far worse where tried than any capitalistic society.

As Margaret Thatcher once said, "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

When you do, people line up for cheese distributions at the nearest government warehouse. And the cheese tastes like shit, if you can even get any.

Wow! You are on auto pilot today with that classic quote. For old time's sake: "we're from the government, and we are here to help you!"

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I was once on the jury for a guy who broke into the government warehouse to steal the free cheese.

barfo

I used to wait in line for it with my mom when I was a kid. Those plastic grilled cheese sandwiches were awesome!

 

[dviss1]

So he's really part of the tin hat party?

Absolutely not. Bernie is America's Senator. He's the only one out of everyone running we can trust. I know he won't send my son to Iran for war in 10 years. Fuck anyone who does want to send him there.

 

[dviss1]

I used to wait in line for it with my mom when I was a kid. Those plastic grilled cheese sandwiches were awesome!

No... they burned instead of actually melting. LOL

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I completely agree with Denny, banks are more important than citizens. Republicans and Democrats agree with us on this too. It's better for the country that we lend banks money at 1% while lending money to college students at 6%. Sanders wanting to 1st make student loans interest free and then looking into providing free tuition to state colleges and universities is pure socialism. Having the next generation be less indebted and more educated will only harm the banks and the middle class. Having people graduate with $30k, $40k, $100k in student loan debit prevents them from buying frivolous things like new cars and houses. We saw what happened in 2008 when too many people bought houses. Banks were harmed. It's better to keep college graduates in debt for 10 years before they can't make these types of mistakes.

 

[Denny Crane]

There are no conspiracy theories. You said "everything is a conspiracy" with Bernie, but all you can post is Bernie talking about the Koch brothers.

The whole appeal of populism is to find someone to demonize. Run against the boogeyman. Hitler demonized the Jews. Trump is demonizing hispanics. Sanders and a lot of other kooks demonize the Koch brothers and corporations.

They're conspiracy theories even if you buy the populist bullshit.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. And you won't like it.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

The whole appeal of populism is to find someone to demonize. Run against the boogeyman. Hitler demonized the Jews. Trump is demonizing hispanics. Sanders and a lot of other kooks demonize the Koch brothers and corporations.

They're conspiracy theories even if you buy the populist bullshit.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. And you won't like it.

He's like Hitler!

 

[Denny Crane]

This is the God's honest truth. Bernie has NOTHING to gain by lying about this. Only something to lose by telling the truth:

See it's bullshit. Corporations pay LOTS of taxes. If the corporations didn't write checks to the government every pay period, there'd be no money for Bernie to spend. He's absolutely clueless about how economics works.

The amount of INCOME TAX that could possibly be collected if you went after all the companies paying little tax adds up to $74B/year. Enough to fund the government for about a week. It would reduce the amount of money the government is borrowing each year by about 1/10th.

Not a big win. Just more boogeymen to rail against.

He's a lunatic.

 

[Denny Crane]

He's like Hitler!

In the populist appeal approach, he sure is.

Fascism takes hold in a country by appeal to the middle class. Communism takes hold in a country by appeal to the lower class. That's about the only difference.

 

[barfo]

The whole appeal of libertarianism is to find someone to demonize. Run against the boogeyman. Hitler demonized the Jews. Trump is demonizing hispanics. Rand Paul and a lot of other kooks demonize the government.

They're conspiracy theories even if you buy the libertarian bullshit.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. And you won't like it.

FTFY

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I completely agree with Denny, banks are more important than citizens. Republicans and Democrats agree with us on this too. It's better for the country that we lend banks money at 1% while lending money to college students at 6%. Sanders wanting to 1st make student loans interest free and then looking into providing free tuition to state colleges and universities is pure socialism. Having the next generation be less indebted and more educated will only harm the banks and the middle class. Having people graduate with $30k, $40k, $100k in student loan debit prevents them from buying frivolous things like new cars and houses. We saw what happened in 2008 when too many people bought houses. Banks were harmed. It's better to keep college graduates in debt for 10 years before they can't make these types of mistakes.

I wouldn't have bailed out the banks. When anyone lends money to someone they don't know, the higher the risk, the higher the interest you'd charge.

Otherwise, you aren't even close to the mark.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

The whole appeal of populism is to find someone to demonize. Run against the boogeyman. Hitler demonized the Jews. Trump is demonizing hispanics. Sanders and a lot of other kooks demonize the Koch brothers and corporations.

They're conspiracy theories even if you buy the populist bullshit.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. And you won't like it.

Dude, you're crazy.

 

[Denny Crane]

FTFY

barfo

Fixed it wrong, as usual.

 

[dviss1]

See it's bullshit. Corporations pay LOTS of taxes. If the corporations didn't write checks to the government every pay period, there'd be no money for Bernie to spend. He's absolutely clueless about how economics works.

The amount of INCOME TAX that could possibly be collected if you went after all the companies paying little tax adds up to $74B/year. Enough to fund the government for about a week. It would reduce the amount of money the government is borrowing each year by about 1/10th.

Not a big win. Just more boogeymen to rail against.

He's a lunatic.

Really??? Who gives a shit if it's "only" 74B a year!?! Denny that's 74 thousand Million...... You complain about govt debt and you don't want to save 74B a year?? GTFO.

If they pay so much in taxes, why the hell do they get a refund? I'd trust Bernie way faster than I'd trust you Denny. No disrespect...

 

[Denny Crane]

Dude, you're crazy.

http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/pop2fasc.html
Populism as Core Element of Fascism


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#Fascism_and_populism

Fascism and populism
Scholars have argued that populist elements have sometimes appeared in far-right authoritarian or fascist movements.[21][22][23][24][25][26]Conspiracistscapegoatingemployed by various populist movements can create "a seedbed for fascism."[27]National socialist populism interacted with and facilitated fascism in interwar Germany.[28] In this case, distressed middle–class populists during the pre-NaziWeimar period mobilized their anger at government and big business.

The facts are on my side.

 

[barfo]

See it's bullshit. Corporations pay LOTS of taxes. If the corporations didn't write checks to the government every pay period, there'd be no money for Bernie to spend. He's absolutely clueless about how economics works.

Yeah... I'm sure Bernie thinks corporations pay zero taxes in total. I'm sure that's what he's saying. He must be, because he's clueless, right?

The amount of INCOME TAX that could possibly be collected if you went after all the companies paying little tax adds up to $74B/year. Enough to fund the government for about a week. It would reduce the amount of money the government is borrowing each year by about 1/10th.

Corporate profits, after tax, are about $6 trillion per year.
There's plenty of blood in that turnip if turnip blood is what you are after. A lot more than $74B.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Really??? Who gives a shit if it's "only" 74B a year!?! Denny that's 74 thousand Million...... You complain about govt debt and you don't want to save 74B a year?? GTFO.

If they pay so much in taxes, why the hell do they get a refund? I'd trust Bernie way faster than I'd trust you Denny. No disrespect...

The government spend $4T a year. Whining about spit in the ocean.

If you collected that $74B and used it to pay off Obama's debt, it would take over 100 years. Assuming we didn't rack up any additional debt in the mean time.

Just to put it in perspective.

It may seem unfair, sure. But there isn't some big gigantic win in this. If anything, the companies will lay off more people than they already are to compensate.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah... I'm sure Bernie thinks corporations pay zero taxes in total. I'm sure that's what he's saying. He must be, because he's clueless, right?



Corporate profits, after tax, are about $6 trillion per year.
There's plenty of blood in that turnip if turnip blood is what you are after. A lot more than $74B.

barfo

When is a profit not a profit? When it's invested in capital items. You know, like how an oil company takes a giant chunk of its profits to buy new rigs and land to drill on. Give that money to the government and companies will be starved for capital to improve their factories and other infrastructure.

I remember that poll about how liberals don't understand economics. You're keeping up your end.

 

[dviss1]

The government spend $4T a year. Whining about spit in the ocean.

If you collected that $74B and used it to pay off Obama's debt, it would take over 100 years. Assuming we didn't rack up any additional debt in the mean time.

Just to put it in perspective.

It may seem unfair, sure. But there isn't some big gigantic win in this. If anything, the companies will lay off more people than they already are to compensate.

74B is 74B. It can be used for something. Don't act like Obama didn't reduce Georgie's defecit to 400+B down from over 1.3 Trill. You talk about gov't spending but say nothing about the wars we are in or the lack of taxes we collect from churches who pay NOTHING. These pastors are living in 6M dollar homes tax free... You're on one dude...

 

[Denny Crane]

Check it out.

40% payroll taxes. Corporations pay 1/2 of those, plus another 9% of what the government takes in.

 

[dviss1]

Check it out.

40% payroll taxes. Corporations pay 1/2 of those, plus another 9% of what the government takes in.

You never answered the question:

Why do they get refund checks?

You keep parroting this bull but don't talk about their EFFECTIVE tax...

 

[Denny Crane]

74B is 74B. It can be used for something. Don't act like Obama didn't reduce Georgie's defecit to 400+B down from over 1.3 Trill. You talk about gov't spending but say nothing about the wars we are in or the lack of taxes we collect from churches who pay NOTHING. These pastors are living in 6M dollar homes tax free... You're on one dude...

Government is incredibly wasteful at spending the burdensome $4T it already spends. Why does it need more?

Whatever government wants to spend $74B on, they're already spending it on or they'll just print more money or borrow from the Chinese to spend it.

Dude, UNIONS ARE TAX EXEMPT. Pastors pay tax.

The government doesn't tax non-profit organizations.

 

[Denny Crane]

You never answered the question:

Why do they get refund checks?

You keep parroting this bull but don't talk about their EFFECTIVE tax...

Why do they get refund checks? Because the tax code encourages things like tilting at windmills. You know, green energy. The government pays companies to hire people, too.

If a company takes a big loss on something, they can carry the loss forward for years. If you have a better suggestion, you'd probably win a nobel prize in economics.

Corporations aren't getting money from the government in the form of refunds, they're getting refunds of taxes they paid at some point.

 

[barfo]

When is a profit not a profit? When it's invested in capital items. You know, like how an oil company takes a giant chunk of its profits to buy new rigs and land to drill on. Give that money to the government and companies will be starved for capital to improve their factories and other infrastructure.

That adds up to about $1.5T of the $6T of profits. Still an awful lot of blood in that turnip.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

That adds up to about $1.5T of the $6T of profits. Still an awful lot of blood in that turnip.

barfo

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-has-big-tax-refund-coming-from-uncle-sam-mdash-again/

Boeing books its profits using a method that amortizes its multibillion-dollar investments in new jets over 20-plus years; for example, it averages today’s actual 787 losses against expected future 787 profits.

While the 787 program is projected to continue hemorrhaging money through 2015 at least, after that it’s supposed to creep gradually into the black and to start reducing the accumulated deficit that by then will have reached $25 billion.

Spreading the program’s current losses over future years is the accounting method that allows Boeing to show a profit every quarter.

If losses were instead booked as each jet is built, company figures show, last year’s massive $5.8 billion profit in the Commercial Airplanes division would have flipped to a $1.6 billion loss.

(reality is $1.6B loss, no blood from that turnip).