Which is More Significant: Finishing 3rd in the West or the Playoff Sweep?

[Lanny]

The answer depends on whether you're a fan or not.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The answer depends on whether you're a fan or not.

Respect your opinion, but disagree with your take. Different people value different things. Doesn’t take away from someone’s fandom if they value the regular season or playoffs more.

I enjoy cheering during the regular season, but I’d rather have play off success than a 70 win season. It doesn’t make me less of a fan than someone who would rather win 70 games than have playoff success.

I found the playoff performance more significant than the regular season, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t cheer for their success during the regular season too.

 

[Strenuus]

Respect your opinion, but disagree with your take. Different people value different things. Doesn’t take away from someone’s fandom if they value the regular season or playoffs more.

I enjoy cheering during the regular season, but I’d rather have play off success than a 70 win season. It doesn’t make me less of a fan than someone who would rather win 70 games than have playoff success.

I found the playoff performance more significant than the regular season, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t cheer for their success during the regular season too.

ALL

OF

THIS.

 

[Hoopguru]

Its a bit funny how many paint a doom and gloom blazer pic.
The Raptors had the best record in the east, and got swept by a 4 seed, a team that got swept by GS.
The Celts won 2 games against the 4 seeded Cavs that got swept by the warriors.
The NBA is FANtastic

 

[e_blazer]

Respect your opinion, but disagree with your take. Different people value different things. Doesn’t take away from someone’s fandom if they value the regular season or playoffs more.

I enjoy cheering during the regular season, but I’d rather have play off success than a 70 win season. It doesn’t make me less of a fan than someone who would rather win 70 games than have playoff success.

I found the playoff performance more significant than the regular season, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t cheer for their success during the regular season too.

I don't disagree with this, but I do think that there's a tendency to overstate the significance of that one series vs. an entire season of work. The Blazers weren't playing well at the end of the season as they lost 4 out of their last 5 games. Maybe they wore themselves out with that 13 game winning streak push? Who knows, but regardless they continued poor play and got swept by the Pelicans in the first round. I think that some people are taking the significance of that too far if they think it means that the Blazers would have had the same results against the other teams that they might have faced in the first round, or that the Blazers weren't capable of beating the Pelicans. As Bones has pointed out, there were definitely things that they could have done differently in their offensive schemes to have countered what the Pelicans were doing. Why Stotts was reluctant to change things up more is a mystery to me, but I'm sure he has his reasons. Regardless, I don't think the Pelicans are some basketball Rubik's cube that is unsolvable. I also think that the moves Olshey made this off-season to get more shooters will definitely help. I guess all of that is to say that, for me, the 49 wins (and it probably should have been 52 or so) shows the Blazers as they were constructed last season are capable of getting to the upper tier of the playoff bracket. That's pretty significant. I think it's more significant than a single series flame-out that, I think, is correctable.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don't disagree with this, but I do think that there's a tendency to overstate the significance of that one series vs. an entire season of work. The Blazers weren't playing well at the end of the season as they lost 4 out of their last 5 games. Maybe they wore themselves out with that 13 game winning streak push? Who knows, but regardless they continued poor play and got swept by the Pelicans in the first round. I think that some people are taking the significance of that too far if they think it means that the Blazers would have had the same results against the other teams that they might have faced in the first round, or that the Blazers weren't capable of beating the Pelicans. As Bones has pointed out, there were definitely things that they could have done differently in their offensive schemes to have countered what the Pelicans were doing. Why Stotts was reluctant to change things up more is a mystery to me, but I'm sure he has his reasons. Regardless, I don't think the Pelicans are some basketball Rubik's cube that is unsolvable. I also think that the moves Olshey made this off-season to get more shooters will definitely help. I guess all of that is to say that, for me, the 49 wins (and it probably should have been 52 or so) shows the Blazers as they were constructed last season are capable of getting to the upper tier of the playoff bracket. That's pretty significant. I think it's more significant than a single series flame-out that, I think, is correctable.

yeah I remember it took Chicago awhile to get pass Detroit and it took the Pistons a while to get by LA.
I remember GS getting knocked out of the playoffs I think by Utah and then the next year they win it all?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I don't disagree with this, but I do think that there's a tendency to overstate the significance of that one series vs. an entire season of work. The Blazers weren't playing well at the end of the season as they lost 4 out of their last 5 games. Maybe they wore themselves out with that 13 game winning streak push? Who knows, but regardless they continued poor play and got swept by the Pelicans in the first round. I think that some people are taking the significance of that too far if they think it means that the Blazers would have had the same results against the other teams that they might have faced in the first round, or that the Blazers weren't capable of beating the Pelicans. As Bones has pointed out, there were definitely things that they could have done differently in their offensive schemes to have countered what the Pelicans were doing. Why Stotts was reluctant to change things up more is a mystery to me, but I'm sure he has his reasons. Regardless, I don't think the Pelicans are some basketball Rubik's cube that is unsolvable. I also think that the moves Olshey made this off-season to get more shooters will definitely help. I guess all of that is to say that, for me, the 49 wins (and it probably should have been 52 or so) shows the Blazers as they were constructed last season are capable of getting to the upper tier of the playoff bracket. That's pretty significant. I think it's more significant than a single series flame-out that, I think, is correctable.

Well I agree there is significance to the regular season, just because I value one over the other doesn't mean I think the regular season holds no value. I think the culmination of the last few years where the Blazers have gotten swept out is a problem though. the collective "we" excused the GS series' because it was GS, but the Pelicans is a much harder pill to swallow. I think the Blazers and Dame are getting that label of the team that can get there but doesn't go anywhere once they are there.
In terms of the off-season moves, well I don't know, major downgrade at back up C/PF and at guards they "probably" got better, but I think the book is still out on Baldwin, we have yet to see how he does when teams actually game plan for his skill set. I think Curry is a good 'get'. The rookies, are always 'well see'. It seems like much of the Blazers hopes to enter basketball 'elite' is on if Zach Collins matures into a decent offensive player (TBD) to go along with his defensive skill-set.

Overall I just personally find what my teams do in the post season more significant than the the regular season. Say the Blazers barely squeezed into the 8th seed got super hot and won a championship, or even just got to the wcf's, I think most people would be happier with that than a 55 win season that ended in the 1st round.

I get your point and I suppose I agree.

 

[Hoopguru]

yeah I remember it took Chicago awhile to get pass Detroit and it took the Pistons a while to get by LA.
I remember GS getting knocked out of the playoffs I think by Utah and then the next year they win it all?

It was the Clippers that knocked them out of the first round, then the next year they win it all.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I thoroughly enjoyed every one of our 49 regular season wins. I also consider the fact that we were "only 3 games from missing the playoffs" as more of a plus than a minus. To me, 3 games separating the 3rd seed from the 9th seed highlights just how tough and competitive the Western Conference, and especially the NW Division, were. All 7 of those teams were very good - and we finished with the best record of the 7. I don't understand why some posters think pointing out were were only 3 games ahead of the 9th seed somehow diminishes our 49 wins and 3rd seed. To me, that's more impressive than winning 54 games and finishing 16 games ahead of a 38-win 8th seed (i.e. being the 3rd seed in the Eastern Conference in most recent years).

But, the playoffs will always be more significant. The stage is bigger and the stakes higher. Don't take my word for it, just ask the players. So, while I truly enjoyed the regular season and am proud of the team for what they accomplished. Wining the NW Division when all the preseason predictions had us finishing last in the division and missing the playoffs was very gratifying. But, getting swept in the playoffs was frustrating and disappointing - a huge letdown. I know we are better than how we played (and how we were coached) in that series. Given the way he's adjusted in the past, I was very disappointed that Terry had ZERO answer for Alvin Gentry aggressively double teaming Dame 30 feet from the basket. It was McMillanesque.

1976-77: 49-32, 3rd seed
2017-18: 49-32, 3rd seed

If we only consider the regular season, 2017-18 was just as good as 1976-77. However, when you include the playoffs, I think I know which season most posters, myself included, think is "more significant".

BNM

 

[tester551]

Its a bit funny how many paint a doom and gloom blazer pic.
The Raptors had the best record in the east, and got swept by a 4 seed, a team that got swept by GS.
The Celts won 2 games against the 4 seeded Cavs that got swept by the warriors.
The NBA is FANtastic

Which now resulted in a new coach (who I think is going to be significantly better), and a major trade (which again I believe will make them better).

Portland on the other hand, continues to sit on their hands....

 

[Hoopguru]

Which now resulted in a new coach (who I think is going to be significantly better), and a major trade (which again I believe will make them better).

Portland on the other hand, continues to sit on their hands....

I don't know how good this coach will be in replacing coach of the year.
Leonard fell in their lap because Pop wanted him out of the WC.
Are you advocating we fire Stotts then trade Dame for another all star?

 

[tester551]

I don't know how good this coach will be in replacing coach of the year.
Leonard fell in their lap because Pop wanted him out of the WC.
Are you advocating we fire Stotts then trade Dame for another all star?

Not Dame, but definitely CJ.

 

[TBpup]

I don't know how good this coach will be in replacing coach of the year.
Leonard fell in their lap because Pop wanted him out of the WC.
Are you advocating we fire Stotts then trade Dame for another all star?

This may be sacrilege, but I would trade Dame for a 2-way all-star, Finals MVP, defensive demon, 1 year younger, bigger player like Kawhi.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

This may be sacrilege, but I would trade Dame for a 2-way all-star, Finals MVP, defensive demon, 1 year younger, bigger player that I'm not sure is actually healthy like Kawhi.

Yes, that would qualify as sacrilege.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

To get serious for a moment, I think what's a bit frustrating to some people is this

A. The Blazers refused to call it a rebuild, so why should we accept anything less than success

B. Rebuilds are usually saved for bad teams. The Blazers never got bad enough to rebuild. They refurbished or remodeled, so a lot of fans see no real progress since those same fans see a team that has no real chance at winning a title. This year, for example, a 49 win team added no one that will give them a legit shot at a title, and that's frustrating. They are good enough not to suck, and not good enough to be taken seriously

In a nutshell.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

This may be sacrilege, but I would trade Dame for a 2-way all-star, Finals MVP, defensive demon, 1 year younger, bigger player like Kawhi.

I’m fascinated at how Kawhi does this year. Let’s face it guys leaving Pop usually play much worse than guys who play for pop. I think there’s a good chance we find that Leonard’s numbers drop. Now maybe he plays as good as ever or better, but there’s a lot more question marks with Leonard then there are with Dame.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I’m fascinated at how Kawhi does this year. Let’s face it guys leaving Pop usually play much worse than guys who play for pop. I think there’s a good chance we find that Leonard’s numbers drop. Now maybe he plays as good as ever or better, but there’s a lot more question marks with Leonard then there are with Dame.

He's also a flight risk. TOR only has him locked down for one season. He may be convinced to resign, but he's also expressed a desire to play in LA and the Clippers could have enough cap space next summer to sign two max contract free agents.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

I’m fascinated at how Kawhi does this year. Let’s face it guys leaving Pop usually play much worse than guys who play for pop. I think there’s a good chance we find that Leonard’s numbers drop. Now maybe he plays as good as ever or better, but there’s a lot more question marks with Leonard then there are with Dame.

Im gonna toss my thought out into outer space all alone for a moment. I haven't ever commented much in the Kawhi thread, because I actually think most people are overrating him. He had an incredible run in the playoffs a couple years ago and he is one of the best defenders in the league at his position, no doubt.

Is he a top 5 players? I doubt it. Post injury? Surely not.

He had a year off, coming off an injury and played for Pops his whole career. Im going on record as saying his numbers will drop significantly. yes he will always be better than average and a probably all star now that he is in the East, but I never viewed him as a super star....even prior to injury. At his peak, he had Parker, Duncan and Ginobli next to him. We haven't really seen him play where he is the focus of the opponents defense.

I could be wrong, but I think we will see he was overrated all along.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Im gonna toss my thought out into outer space all alone for a moment. I haven't ever commented much in the Kawhi thread, because I actually think most people are overrating him. He had an incredible run in the playoffs a couple years ago and he is one of the best defenders in the league at his position, no doubt.

Is he a top 5 players? I doubt it. Post injury? Surely not.

He had a year off, coming off an injury and played for Pops his whole career. Im going on record as saying his numbers will drop significantly. yes he will always be better than average and a probably all star now that he is in the East, but I never viewed him as a super star....even prior to injury. At his peak, he had Parker, Duncan and Ginobli next to him. We haven't really seen him play where he is the focus of the opponents defense.

I could be wrong, but I think we will see he was overrated all along.

I agree though to be fair most of us our last memory of him is putting a whooping on GS before ZaZa took care of that. So while I’d love to have him, I am also just very curious as to what kind of player Toronto actually got.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Im gonna toss my thought out into outer space all alone for a moment. I haven't ever commented much in the Kawhi thread, because I actually think most people are overrating him. He had an incredible run in the playoffs a couple years ago and he is one of the best defenders in the league at his position, no doubt.

Is he a top 5 players? I doubt it. Post injury? Surely not.

He had a year off, coming off an injury and played for Pops his whole career. Im going on record as saying his numbers will drop significantly. yes he will always be better than average and a probably all star now that he is in the East, but I never viewed him as a super star....even prior to injury. At his peak, he had Parker, Duncan and Ginobli next to him. We haven't really seen him play where he is the focus of the opponents defense.

I could be wrong, but I think we will see he was overrated all along.

I think you're wrong. I think this a case of out of sight, out of mind after missing most of last season.

Yes, winning finals MVP at 22, while guarding LeBron in his prime, was a defining moment in his career, but he's accomplished a lot since then. By the time he was 25, he'd won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards. The year after that, he averaged 25.5 PPG on only 17.7 FGA/G. That's incredible efficiency for that kind of scoring output. Which explains his 27.6 (tied with Durant for 2nd in the league while also being 1st team all defense for the 4th straight season).

He was 2nd in MVP voting at 24 and 3rd in MVP voting at 25.

So yeah, he was that good. The key is, will he ever be that good again moving forward? Will he fully recover from his injury? Will he score as efficiently outside of Pop's system? Will he defend as well as he used to? Those are all legitimate concerns, but it's more of a case of will he ever be as good as he once was, not a case of he really was never all that good.

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think you're wrong. I think this a case of out of sight, out of mind after missing most of last season.

Yes, winning finals MVP at 22, while guarding LeBron in his prime, was a defining moment in his career, but he's accomplished a lot since then. By the time he was 25, he'd won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards. The year after that, he averaged 25.5 PPG on only 17.7 FGA/G. That's incredible efficiency for that kind of scoring output. Which explains his 27.6 (tied with Durant for 2nd in the league while also being 1st team all defense for the 4th straight season).

He was 2nd in MVP voting at 24 and 3rd in MVP voting at 25.

So yeah, he was that good. The key is, will he ever be that good again moving forward? Will he fully recover from his injury? Will he score as efficiently outside of Pop's system? Will he defend as well as he used to? Those are all legitimate concerns, but it's more of a case of will he ever be as good as he once was, not a case of he really was never all that good.

BNM

He no doubt had a great start of his career. Like you mention there’s still quite a few question marks though. I sure wouldn’t trade Dame for him right now.

 

[riverman]

I think you're wrong. I think this a case of out of sight, out of mind after missing most of last season.

Yes, winning finals MVP at 22, while guarding LeBron in his prime, was a defining moment in his career, but he's accomplished a lot since then. By the time he was 25, he'd won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards. The year after that, he averaged 25.5 PPG on only 17.7 FGA/G. That's incredible efficiency for that kind of scoring output. Which explains his 27.6 (tied with Durant for 2nd in the league while also being 1st team all defense for the 4th straight season).

He was 2nd in MVP voting at 24 and 3rd in MVP voting at 25.

So yeah, he was that good. The key is, will he ever be that good again moving forward? Will he fully recover from his injury? Will he score as efficiently outside of Pop's system? Will he defend as well as he used to? Those are all legitimate concerns, but it's more of a case of will he ever be as good as he once was, not a case of he really was never all that good.

BNM

Whether he's healthy is a question now but my biggest issue is whether he'll throw another team under the bus to become a Laker....that's the problem I have with the guy...I wouldn't trade franchise loyalty for rentals at all. No doubt he's a great talent...but he's shown some new feathers since that I wouldn't trust or give up our own franchise player for at all at this point.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think you're wrong. I think this a case of out of sight, out of mind after missing most of last season.

Yes, winning finals MVP at 22, while guarding LeBron in his prime, was a defining moment in his career, but he's accomplished a lot since then. By the time he was 25, he'd won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards. The year after that, he averaged 25.5 PPG on only 17.7 FGA/G. That's incredible efficiency for that kind of scoring output. Which explains his 27.6 (tied with Durant for 2nd in the league while also being 1st team all defense for the 4th straight season).

He was 2nd in MVP voting at 24 and 3rd in MVP voting at 25.

So yeah, he was that good. The key is, will he ever be that good again moving forward? Will he fully recover from his injury? Will he score as efficiently outside of Pop's system? Will he defend as well as he used to? Those are all legitimate concerns, but it's more of a case of will he ever be as good as he once was, not a case of he really was never all that good.

BNM

My thought is, was he able to do this because he had three other all stars around him for other defenses to focus on him, so he put little energy into his offense combined with easy buckets(lack of quality D by the opponents due to them sticking with the other all stars) and able to have more energy on D because of it?

You have good points( as usual) that help me lean towards your opinion, but I still think he was and is over rated. It will never be a sure thing to know, as its all in the past. I hear ya. Just not sure I buy ALL of it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

My thought is, was he able to do this because he had three other all stars around him for other defenses to focus on him, so he put little energy into his offense combined with easy buckets(lack of quality D by the opponents due to them sticking with the other all stars) and able to have more energy on D because of it?

The season I was referring to was 2015-16, after Duncan had retired. Parker and Ginobili were well past their primes (missing several games each and only averaging 10.1ppg and 7.5 ppg respectively). He did have a second all star in Aldridge, but Kawhi was clearly the No. 1 option on that team (averaging 25.5 ppg vs. Aldridge's 17.1 ppg). He was the guy opposing coaches game planned for, and yet he still had scored a very efficient 25.5 ppg (along with being 1st team all defense and 3rd in MVP voting). He was the guy who had SAS up by 23 on GSW when ZaZa took him out.

He was the best player, both offensive and defensively on a 61-win no. 2 seed.

I'm not saying he'll ever be that guy again (time will tell), but two years ago, that's exactly the guy he was.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

He no doubt had a great start of his career. Like you mention there’s still quite a few question marks though. I sure wouldn’t trade Dame for him right now.

Agreed, too many risks. Peak Kawhi was better than peak Dame (because of being one of the two best defenders in the league for 4 straight years), but we don't know if we'll ever see peak Kawhi again. It's a huge gamble for TOR, but one they felt they had to take with an aging roster they felt had maxed out.

With Dame, you know exactly what you're going to get. 1st team all NBA performance and world class leadership. In this scenario, I'll take the sure thing over the high risk. Although, it sure would have been nice to have them both...

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Whether he's healthy is a question now but my biggest issue is whether he'll throw another team under the bus to become a Laker....that's the problem I have with the guy...I wouldn't trade franchise loyalty for rentals at all. No doubt he's a great talent...but he's shown some new feathers since that I wouldn't trust or give up our own franchise player for at all at this point.

Yes, that's why I referred to him as a flight risk. TOR took a huge gamble on many fronts.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

I think the mriners have the longest post season deought i nthe majors eight now though.

All im saying is it could be much worse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_franchise_post-season_droughts

A gm doesnt make a fan do anything. We all have a choice.
I get peoples frustration with him and Stotts at times, but ive been to playoff games watching my favorite team every year ive been a ticketholder.
Ive also been a mariners fan since the edgar days. Do you know how many years in the last decade they have had post season games?
0

Im not content with the blazers but im also not willing to just jump ship because it aint going right. Its going alot better than it used to and it could be alot worse in my opinion.

Content? No.
Ready to turn my back on the blazers? No

As a Mariners fan who's never seen them play a playoff game, screw them. They finally had a great pitching outting tiday (shutout through 11), and it took them till the 12th inning to put runs on the board... rediculous.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think the mriners have the longest post season deought i nthe majors eight now though.

All im saying is it could be much worse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_franchise_post-season_droughts

It doesn't even make this list, but when I see people hear discounting POR's 49-win season (in an incredibly competitive conference), I think of WAS. Prior to 2016-17, they went 37 years without winning 49 games. 37 years!!! Half the posters here haven't even been alive that long. POR has won 49, or more, games in 3 of the last 5 years, including 50 twice. WAS hasn't won 50 games in 39 years.

So yeah, it could be worse - a LOT worse.

BNM

 

[e_blazer]

It doesn't even make this list, but when I see people hear discounting POR's 49-win season (in an incredibly competitive conference), I think of WAS. Prior to 2016-17, they went 37 years without winning 49 games. 37 years!!! Half the posters here haven't even been alive that long. POR has won 49, or more, games in 3 of the last 5 years, including 50 twice. WAS hasn't won 50 games in 39 years.

So yeah, it could be worse - a LOT worse.

BNM

Good point. And, when I hear people complain about playoff success being the defining thing about a team's worth, I think of the Timberwolves. In their franchise history of 28 seasons, they've only made the playoffs 9 times. Eight of those were in the KG era, during which they were swept in the first round twice, lost in the first round five more times, and only advanced out of the first round once (to the WCF in 2004). After that, the team went into full rebuild mode and missed the playoffs for THIRTEEN SEASONS before finally making it back this year...where they won exactly one game.

So, if you are a Timberwolves fan who only finds joy in playoff success and are more than about 35 years of age, you would only have had a chance to watch 52 playoff games in 28 seasons, with an overall record of 18-34 and a grand total of just TWO playoff series wins.

Yeah, things can get a LOT worse.

 

[Orion Bailey]

As a Mariners fan who's never seen them play a playoff game, screw them. They finally had a great pitching outting tiday (shutout through 11), and it took them till the 12th inning to put runs on the board... rediculous.

It doesn't even make this list, but when I see people hear discounting POR's 49-win season (in an incredibly competitive conference), I think of WAS. Prior to 2016-17, they went 37 years without winning 49 games. 37 years!!! Half the posters here haven't even been alive that long. POR has won 49, or more, games in 3 of the last 5 years, including 50 twice. WAS hasn't won 50 games in 39 years.

So yeah, it could be worse - a LOT worse.

BNM

I get you guys but you know what i got most of all???

I need to proofread my posts from my phone alot more!!!!!!!
Wow.
I cant believe someone didnt slap me around for that shit. Sorry for the forced deciphering. Lol