Exclusive 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
James lamphear said:
I not talking about there team I am taking about how they adjust vonleh shot that made him better shooter.
Click to expand...

How are you coming about this information? It's just a silly claim. Besides, Noah's FG% during his last season in Portland was .490 and in New York it's .467. That's worse. Sure, his 3pt% has risen from .333 to .407 but he shot 0.2 a game in Portland and now is shooting 2.1 a game.

I like Noah a lot, but he is the same player. The difference is the lack of depth in New York (allowing him to shoot at will), the philosophy of the team (they aren't making the playoffs), and playing time (up from 14.4 a game in Portland to 26.3 in New York).

The whole thing is silly. There are PLENTY of reasons to take issue with the Portland coaching staff, but none of them have anything to do with any inability to "unlock" Noah Vonleh.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
How many wins would we have without Dame? More than 10 but not near as many as we have now.
Click to expand...

Holy hypothetical. Without Dame we'd be watching CJ unleashed, which we've already established is a different beast altogether. 10 is too low, I suspect. That being said, I'm missing the point...what's your point?
 
Propagandist said:
Holy hypothetical. Without Dame we'd be watching CJ unleashed, which we've already established is a different beast altogether. 10 is too low, I suspect. That being said, I'm missing the point...what's your point?
Click to expand...
You were insinuating that they have a shit coaching staff. It is not the coaches that are a problem it is missing there All Star player and having crappy players otherwise.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
You were insinuating that they have a shit coaching staff. It is not the coaches that are a problem it is missing there All Star player and having crappy players otherwise.
Click to expand...

We are talking about two different things. Just forget I said anything.
 
Propagandist said:
How are you coming about this information? It's just a silly claim. Besides, Noah's FG% during his last season in Portland was .490 and in New York it's .467. That's worse. Sure, his 3pt% has risen from .333 to .407 but he shot 0.2 a game in Portland and now is shooting 2.1 a game.

I like Noah a lot, but he is the same player. The difference is the lack of depth in New York (allowing him to shoot at will), the philosophy of the team (they aren't making the playoffs), and playing time (up from 14.4 a game in Portland to 26.3 in New York).

The whole thing is silly. There are PLENTY of reasons to take issue with the Portland coaching staff, but none of them have anything to do with any inability to "unlock" Noah Vonleh.
Click to expand...
I read it some article I forgot where due that read a lot of them. But if feel mad about me talking about the coaches staff for not trying else about his shot so be. Plus he did have better fg percent he should due to almost all his shots were dunks off Nurk assist. So I am saying outside of his dunks he better shooter now then he was in Portland. I believe what the article said one of the assistant coach change his release point on his shot.
 
James lamphear said:
I read it some article I forgot where due that read a lot of them.
Click to expand...

I read it in more than one article. I forgot where, too. They said that the Knick coach encourages him to show all facets of his game (e.g. dribbling), while Stotts restricted him.
 
Propagandist said:
How are you coming about this information? It's just a silly claim. Besides, Noah's FG% during his last season in Portland was .490 and in New York it's .467. That's worse. Sure, his 3pt% has risen from .333 to .407 but he shot 0.2 a game in Portland and now is shooting 2.1 a game.

I like Noah a lot, but he is the same player. The difference is the lack of depth in New York (allowing him to shoot at will), the philosophy of the team (they aren't making the playoffs), and playing time (up from 14.4 a game in Portland to 26.3 in New York).

The whole thing is silly. There are PLENTY of reasons to take issue with the Portland coaching staff, but none of them have anything to do with any inability to "unlock" Noah Vonleh.
Click to expand...
This post is a prime example as to why I use TS%.

Last year, Vonlehs TS% was .509
This year, Vonlehs TS% is .574

That's a huge increase.

His AST% went from 5.7 to 11.2
STL% went from 1.1 to 1.5
BLK% went from 1.6 to 2.9
DBPM went from 0.3 to 2.1

His BPM as a whole increased by 4.5, from -3.1 to 1.4.

He is NOT the same player in New York as he was in Portland. That couldn't be further from the truth. Hes improved astronomically this year.
 
BonesJones said:
This post is a prime example as to why I use TS%.

Last year, Vonlehs TS% was .509
This year, Vonlehs TS% is .574

That's a huge increase.

His AST% went from 5.7 to 11.2
STL% went from 1.1 to 1.5
BLK% went from 1.6 to 2.9
DBPM went from 0.3 to 2.1

His BPM as a whole increased by 4.5, from -3.1 to 1.4.

He is NOT the same player in New York as he was in Portland. That couldn't be further from the truth. Hes improved astronomically this year.
Click to expand...

Minutes and role.

And his TS% was .543 in his last season in Portland, not .509.

His AST% went from 3.8 in Portland to 11.2. That's a lot.

They sure taught him how to pass in NY. Wow. And to steal better and to block better and so on. It's so ridiculous.

He plays more! A lot more. His role is bigger! And Viola.
 
Propagandist said:
Minutes and role.

And his TS% was .543 in his last season in Portland, not .509.

His AST% went from 3.8 in Portland to 11.2. That's a lot.

They sure taught him how to pass in NY. Wow. And to steal better and to block better and so on. It's so ridiculous.

He plays more! A lot more. His role is bigger! And Viola.
Click to expand...
Those stats aren't minutes based...
 
Last edited:
And yet they are clearly the result of playing more minutes in a defined role. Noah was a lottery pick for a reason.

Anyway, I don't even know how this is a discussion. I bailed on it twice already.

Look at it from any angle and Noah is doing well and I'm glad.
 
Propagandist said:
And yet they are clearly the result of playing more minutes in a defined role. Noah was a lottery pick for a reason.

Anyway, I don't even know how this is a discussion. I bailed on it twice already.

Look at it from any angle and Noah is doing well and I'm glad.
Click to expand...
Exactly... the coaching staff didnt utilize him.
 
BonesJones said:
Exactly... the coaching staff didnt utilize him.
Click to expand...
Sure they did. Just in a different role.

And Vonleh's "impovement" is largely stemming from being allowed to bring the ball up the floor, initiate more hand offs and shooting an unsustainable 41% from 3.
 
JDC said:
Sure they did. Just in a different role.

And Vonleh's "impovement" is largely stemming from being allowed to bring the ball up the floor, initiate more hand offs and shooting an unsustainable 41% from 3.
Click to expand...
They didn't utilize him in the best way possible.

Imagine allowing Dame, CJ, and Nurkic to play off the ball because we had a PF that could dribble, pass, defend, and shoot? That 4th thing is huge, because Turner can't shot so defenses just sag into the paint to clog things up.

Vonleh's shooting form looks much better this year. Elbow isn't inside of the ball like it was last year and he's minimized the hitch that it produced. This is something the coaching staff should've corrected when they got him, but they didn't. Right after he leaves, it's fixed... So while I don't expect him to be a 41% shooter, I do think he's a better shooter than Aminu.

The coaching staff didn't know what they had. They didn't give him an opportunity to do anything that he's doing now. He'd have great stretches and would still get benched after 6 minutes and wouldn't see the floor for the rest of the half.
 
dviss1 said:
No he wasn't. Vonleh couldn't shoot a lick when he was here (scared to miss yips) and here was getting exposed in pick and roll defense. Hated to see him go but even your Aminu hate doesn't make Vonleh a clear upgrade.
Click to expand...
I think the coaching staff is at fault for this, because he surely doesn't have them this year.
 
BonesJones said:
They didn't utilize him in the best way possible.

Imagine allowing Dame, CJ, and Nurkic to play off the ball because we had a PF that could dribble, pass, defend, and shoot? That 4th thing is huge, because Turner can't shot so defenses just sag into the paint to clog things up.

Vonleh's shooting form looks much better this year. Elbow isn't inside of the ball like it was last year and he's minimized the hitch that it produced. This is something the coaching staff should've corrected when they got him, but they didn't. Right after he leaves, it's fixed... So while I don't expect him to be a 41% shooter, I do think he's a better shooter than Aminu.

The coaching staff didn't know what they had. They didn't give him an opportunity to do anything that he's doing now. He'd have great stretches and would still get benched after 6 minutes and wouldn't see the floor for the rest of the half.
Click to expand...
His dribbling and passing isn't really opening things up for other players and he's still pretty ignored as a shooter.

He's definitely improved, but your dismissing context too easily. Every player can't be maximized on the floor and I think it's fair to say that he wouldn't be used the same way on a good team.
 
Last edited:
JDC said:
Sure they did. Just in a different role.

And Vonleh's "impovement" is largely stemming from being allowed to bring the ball up the floor, initiate more hand offs and shooting an unsustainable 41% from 3.
Click to expand...
I understand youre position here, his form looks pretty good. The role change definitely helped. Why do you believe the shooting percentage is unsustainable? Im sure teams have scouted him by now and are guarding him.
 
JDC said:
His dribbling and passing isn't really opening things up for other players and he's still pretty ignored as a shooter.

He's definitely improved, but your dismissing context to easily. Every player can't be maximized on the floor and I think it's fair to say that he wouldn't be used the same way on a good team.
Click to expand...
Vonleh was already starting to look pretty good for the Blazers while playing with Nurk though he was a big part of their run the year Nurk got here. Was he out shooting 3’s and handling the ball? no. I think he was 21 that year though and already showing a lot of promise.
I understood the trade, and Im not even bashing Stotts or Olshey, just saying I dont think its that far fetched Vonleh is actually a pretty good role player who is a legit NBA starter.
 
JDC said:
His dribbling and passing isn't really opening things up for other players and he's still pretty ignored as a shooter.

He's definitely improved, but your dismissing context to easily. Every player can't be maximized on the floor and I think it's fair to say that he wouldn't be used the same way on a good team.
Click to expand...
Whatever you say.
 
BonesJones said:
I didnt read a single word of this post. I have no interest in having a conversation with you. Go Blazers.
Click to expand...
You are such a hypocrite man.

You complain about people doing the same thing that you're doing right now.

But again, not surprised.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RR7
JDC said:
You are such a hypocrite man.

You complain about people doing the same thing that you're doing right now.

But again, not surprised.
Click to expand...
I agree with @BonesJones take on this debate vs yours but I have to say this is the most true thing you have ever stated. Absolutely agree with you (on this particular post).
 
JDC said:
You are such a hypocrite man.

You complain about people doing the same thing that you're doing right now.

But again, not surprised.
Click to expand...
I just dont want to argue with you. I dont complain about people doing that at all.
 
JDC said:
Go watch his assists in games where he has high totals and come back to me.

https://stats.nba.com/player/203943/boxscores-traditional/

Was Andre Drummond a vastly improved playmaker two years ago? What has changed this year? (These questions are rhetorical, in case you wondering)
Click to expand...

How many players get more assists the more they score? I mean I understand what you're saying about context and role. Vonleh is clearly not a star, I guess you have said a few times you agree that he's gotten better. So maybe we agree for the most part I don't know.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
I agree with @BonesJones take on this debate vs yours but I have to say this is the most true thing you have ever stated. Absolutely agree with you (on this particular post).
Click to expand...
I've been told I argue to much and then when I dont want to argue, its a bad thing. LMAO.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
How many players get more assists the more they score? I mean I understand what you're saying about context and role. Vonleh is clearly not a star, I guess you have said a few times you agree that he's gotten better. So maybe we agree for the most part I don't know.
Click to expand...
The point of my post was that not all assists are created equal. Most of Vonleh's assists are role/scheme dependent.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Featured content

Back
Top