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Quatro44 said:
Sleepy Joe better wake up.
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Either the Magic REALLY hated Anfernee, they see something godlike in Bane, or we actually want to keep Anfernee, because they overpaid.



Up till now the Magic have built entirely with the draft. So maybe they feel they can splash out for the "missing piece"? He certainly fits with their defensive identity, so I guess we'll see. We were hoping the Magic would be blind to Anfernee's atrocious defense, but I guess not.
 
Joe hasn’t been proactive/aggressive enough….

It’s probably why we’re stuck with Jerami and probably Anfernee for the remainder of their contracts.
 
So, for Eastern contenders:
Tatum's injury and a bloated salary list has Boston sitting next season out, I'm assuming.
Indy have assets in house (Mathurin) to make the next step.
Your move, Knicks, Cavs and Pistons, or do you want the Magic to leapfrog you?
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Joe hasn’t been proactive/aggressive enough….

It’s probably why we’re stuck with Jerami and probably Anfernee for the remainder of their contracts.
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Maybe all of the trades that get rid of one of them demand Toumani or Deni. Would you be glad at that trade?
 
the "unprotected" picks thing is interesting, though it depends on who those picks actually are. If they're historically good teams, unprotected picks can mean nothing.
 
yesterday's rumor mill has us getting Sabonis for Ayton and Scoot in a 3 way deal with Sac and the Hawks....then mentions Deni is targeted hard from Memphis...not sure what sort of deal they offer but I wouldn't trade Deni ....
 
This is not Cronin's fault as much as I would like to blame that fool -- Ant was NEVER going to get that haul of players and picks and the Magic GM is a complete idiot and basically put ALL his cards into the next 2 to 4 years and now he better pray it works or the Magic are FUCKED. This was a robbery by the Memphis GM and he is now the leader in the clubhouse for Exec of the year cause Bane is a good player but sure as hell not worth that package.
 
Quatro44 said:
Yeah I can see that. They let Ayton and Ant walk to save money.
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KCP only has a year left. If they let those guys walk without extracting value and waiting another year before allowing Scoot to really get going, it's a fuck up.

They moved Josh Hart for a crappy pick when it was clear they weren't bringing him back just to get something. I can't imagine they won't do the same thing with Ant, if they even want to move him.
 
Well, Simons isn't going home.
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
This is not Cronin's fault as much as I would like to blame that fool -- Ant was NEVER going to get that haul of players and picks and the Magic GM is a complete idiot and basically put ALL his cards into the next 2 to 4 years and now he better pray it works or the Magic are FUCKED. This was a robbery by the Memphis GM and he is now the leader in the clubhouse for Exec of the year cause Bane is a good player but sure as hell not worth that package.
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Yeah
 
riverman said:
yesterday's rumor mill has us getting Sabonis for Ayton and Scoot in a 3 way deal with Sac and the Hawks....then mentions Deni is targeted hard from Memphis...not sure what sort of deal they offer but I wouldn't trade Deni ....
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Not interested in trading Scoot
 
Gtf6vIhWQAAc_V4
 
Sheldon Shape said:
KCP only has a year left. If they let those guys walk without extracting value and waiting another year before allowing Scoot to really get going, it's a fuck up.

They moved Josh Hart for a crappy pick when it was clear they weren't bringing him back just to get something. I can't imagine they won't do the same thing with Ant, if they even want to move him.
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All I know is that I am preparing for a lame duck season.
 
Mediocre Man said:
He has a better 3pt%, PER (Simons is below league average, better DBPM and actually makes his team better when he’s on the floor…unlike Simons, who is a -1
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Oh he’s better but not for the price. He was second rookie team and that will be his highest honor. Toumani has already bested that. Bane will never get an all nba vote for 3 ufrp
 
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It's a lot for Bane although the Orlando picks in 26', 28' and 30' are likely not lottery picks. But who knows...a lot can change in 5 years. Even then though I think the Phoenix 26' pick is probably going to be the best out of the bunch.

And here's some more Bane vs Ant data via Dunks & Threes EPM metric (widely considered the best publicly available all in one +/- metric).

Over the last 4 years....

Desmond Bane: 31.2 Estimated Wins (245 games)
Anfernee Simons: 15.4 Estimated Wins (235 games)

Bane is a better player and a much better fit alongside Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.
 
ORL fell apart like a cheap suit last year with injuries. Those picks might be decent. The PHX pick could be in the top 10 for sure.
 
JDC said:
It's a lot for Bane although the Orlando picks in 26', 28' and 30' are likely not lottery picks. But who knows...a lot can change in 5 years. Even then though I think the Phoenix 26' pick is probably going to be the best out of the bunch.

And here's some more Bane vs Ant data via Dunks & Threes EPM metric (widely considered the best publicly available all in one +/- metric).

Over the last 4 years....

Desmond Bane: 31.2 Estimated Wins (245 games)
Anfernee Simons: 15.4 Estimated Wins (235 games)

Bane is a better player and a much better fit alongside Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.
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The issue isn't that Bane is better than Simons. The issue is that Orlando gave them A SHIT TON OF UNPROTECTED PICKS.
 
JDC said:
It's a lot for Bane although the Orlando picks in 26', 28' and 30' are likely not lottery picks. But who knows...a lot can change in 5 years. Even then though I think the Phoenix 26' pick is probably going to be the best out of the bunch.

And here's some more Bane vs Ant data via Dunks & Threes EPM metric (widely considered the best publicly available all in one +/- metric).

Over the last 4 years....

Desmond Bane: 31.2 Estimated Wins (245 games)
Anfernee Simons: 15.4 Estimated Wins (235 games)

Bane is a better player and a much better fit alongside Suggs, Paolo, and Franz.
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Bane's a better player for sure. Don't think anyone's disputing that. Of course, they could have gotten Ant for 1 pick, so is he better than Ant and what you get with the other 3 and swap?

As for EPM, like with a lot of advanced stats, always feels like a lot of noise. When the defensive side of it lists Luka as better than guys like Lu Dort, Nesmith, Bridges, etc., I start to question what the stat is actually showing us.
 
RR7 said:
Bane's a better player for sure. Don't think anyone's disputing that. Of course, they could have gotten Ant for 1 pick, so is he better than Ant and what you get with the other 3 and swap?

As for EPM, like with a lot of advanced stats, always feels like a lot of noise. When the defensive side of it lists Luka as better than guys like Lu Dort, Nesmith, Bridges, etc., I start to question what the stat is actually showing us.
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Yeah - when I looked into EPM, Im really not impressed.

Honestly, I think WS/48 does a better job (although not perfect). Still have to take things with a big grain of salt
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Yeah - when I looked into EPM, Im really not impressed.

Honestly, I think WS/48 does a better job (although not perfect). Still have to take things with a big grain of salt
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problem when you look at WS is, of course, guys on winning teams have higher WSs, because they "contributed" to more wins. But yes, lots of salt
 
RR7 said:
Bane's a better player for sure. Don't think anyone's disputing that. Of course, they could have gotten Ant for 1 pick, so is he better than Ant and what you get with the other 3 and swap?

As for EPM, like with a lot of advanced stats, always feels like a lot of noise. When the defensive side of it lists Luka as better than guys like Lu Dort, Nesmith, Bridges, etc., I start to question what the stat is actually showing us.
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Oh for sure. There's no perfect stat out there and yes the defensive stuff has some weird stuff going on. Like I'm sure Luka's defensive rebounding numbers are contributing a lot to what we are seeing here, especially when looking at him vs Dort. These stats are always going to struggle to adjust for teammate quality and context as well.

But yeah I posted those numbers to more so illustrate what the gap is. If you don't believe in EPM's value or any other on court +/- based metric (because all of them value Bane over Simons to a pretty high degree) I get it. Like you said they all are very noisy, but I think they do a better job capturing total on court value over a large sample over what our eyes or the traditional box score can do.

Orlando has also invested a lot of picks over the last 4 drafts late in the lottery with little to show but that have hit big enough on their core 3 high picks and saw Bane as a great opportunity to make a run in the next couple years with the East in a weird 2 year flux with all the major injuries and was willing to overpay in the long term.

It's risky, but I get it much more than trading for an expiring Simons.
 
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