Around the NBA - July 2017 Edition

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Socnorb11 said:
No offense, but comparing Nurkic to Jokic is fools play. Jokic was the top center in the NBA last year (and 8th best player overall). Nurkic was somewhere around 27th, according to PER (Player Efficiency Ratings).

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Nurkic really hurts himself with a massive turnover rate, and a complete lack of perimeter game (which is essential in today's NBA, even for big men).
Click to expand...

Nurkic's PER once he got to Portland was 21.1 which puts him around 12th, not 27th... Not bad for a guy not in game shape and learning a new system.

EDIT: And btw, Javale McGee had the 4th best PER for centers, so unless you think that he's anywhere near the 4th best center you should take PER with a grain of salt. Maybe even actually watch the games instead of staring an numbers.
 
riverman said:
I cannot fathom where in the hell there's a piece of land in San Francisco that can accommodate a parking lot and basketball arena...unless they buy Golden Gate park or something...that city has seemed to me to have been maxed out from development for decades
Click to expand...

Just build a floating arena in the Bay.

floating-stadium.jpg
 
Socnorb11 said:
No offense, but comparing Nurkic to Jokic is fools play. Jokic was the top center in the NBA last year (and 8th best player overall). Nurkic was somewhere around 27th, according to PER (Player Efficiency Ratings).

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Nurkic really hurts himself with a massive turnover rate, and a complete lack of perimeter game (which is essential in today's NBA, even for big men).
Click to expand...
Glad you clued us all in to that obscure PER stat. That really clears a lot of things up for us. Like, I used to think that Draymond Green was a better player than Kevin Love, but fortunately, I now have PER to tell me that Love was 3rd among PFs with a 21.18 PER, whereas Green's 16.51 ranked just 23rd, demonstrating conclusively that Love actually is the superior player.

Thank God for you.
 
JaVale McGee actually should have played more.

When McGee was on the floor, the Warriors’ offensive rating was a team-best 121.4 (points per 100 possessions) and their net rating was a team-best 18.7. He had the best per-minute plus/minus in the league.
 
Socnorb11 said:
OK??

And Nurkic got out-played by Marcin Gortat when Portland played Washington? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

Gortat owns every European center. Think he gets extra up for those matchups.
 
Socnorb11 said:
Do you have any evidence that Love is NOT the better player?
Click to expand...
Outside of watching them play and general common sense, I'll see if I can find anything...

upload_2017-7-3_12-12-8.png

Come on, man--don't waste our time acting like PER is the be all/end all. Seriously--take that kind of crap to Blazersedge.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Outside of watching them play and general common sense, I'll see if I can find anything...

View attachment 14989

Come on, man--don't waste our time acting like PER is the be all/end all. Seriously--take that kind of crap to Blazersedge.
Click to expand...


Perfect. Let's use VORP, if that's what you choose.

Jokic was 10th best player in the league, with a 5.3. Nurkic was a .7


Nurkic's ORtg with Portland was 105. His DRtg with Portland was 104
Jokic's ORtg was 126. His DRtg was 109.

Essentially, it can be concluded that Nukic is a little better defender than Jokic, but Jokic is SO much better offensively that there really is no comparison.
 
Socnorb11 said:
Perfect. Let's use VORP, if that's what you choose.

Jokic was 10th best player in the league, with a 5.3. Nurkic was a .7


Nurkic's ORtg with Portland was 105. His DRtg with Portland was 104
Jokic's ORtg was 126. His DRtg was 109.

Essentially, it can be concluded that Nukic is a little better defender than Jokic, but Jokic is SO much better offensively that there really is no comparison.
Click to expand...
I'm not disputing that Jokic was better last year than Nurkic was--anyone who would is silly. All I'm saying is that acting like PER alone closes the case is ridiculous.

Also, as others have pointed out, Nurkic was significantly better in his 20 games in Portland than he was in the earlier portion of the season in Denver. Further, Jokic's role in Denver's offense as contrasted with Nurk's in Portland can't be ignored. Not to mention Nurkic's terrible physical conditioning this past year that appears to have already been improved if not fully remedied.

But sure, let's just lazily point to numbers and completely ignore their context. That always makes for intelligent basketball conversation.
 
Socnorb11 said:
No offense, but comparing Nurkic to Jokic is fools play. Jokic was the top center in the NBA last year (and 8th best player overall). Nurkic was somewhere around 27th, according to PER (Player Efficiency Ratings).

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Nurkic really hurts himself with a massive turnover rate, and a complete lack of perimeter game (which is essential in today's NBA, even for big men).
Click to expand...

Says the Denver fan who can't take it because their SOFT ASS Center got DESTROYED in the biggest game of his career? Yeah... Buh Bye salty...
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I'm not disputing that Jokic was better last year than Nurkic was--anyone who would is silly. All I'm saying is that acting like PER alone closes the case is ridiculous.

Also, as others have pointed out, Nurkic was significantly better in his 20 games in Portland than he was in the earlier portion of the season in Denver. Further, Jokic's role in Denver's offense as contrasted with Nurk's in Portland can't be ignored. Not to mention Nurkic's terrible physical conditioning this past year that appears to have already been improved if not fully remedied.

But sure, let's just lazily point to numbers and completely ignore their context. That always makes for intelligent basketball conversation.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure what you want here. I specifically used Nurkic's Portland numbers only. I also agree that PER isn't the be-all and end-all. Someone actually did say earlier that Nurkic > Jokic. That's just silly.

Here's the thing. Nurkic has NO perimeter game. None. Couple that with the fact that he's an awful free throw shooter (which means you can't have him in the game when it's on the line), is a turnover machine, and a worse 2-point shooter than Jokic, and Jokic being the best passing big-man in the game.................... there really isn't much comparison.
 
I do think there's a case to be made that we're getting ahead of ourselves after all of 20 games. I don't, at all, disagree that there was visual evidence that team plays better with Nurkic, in terms of how he changed the angles for shooters on offense and cutting lanes on defense. I think that's clearly going to stick around. Whether he'll be as productive--a stat monster--I think is still an open question. If he plays anywhere near that level next year, I'll be a full believer, even if he doesn't play every game.
 
@Socnorb11 ... Nurkic showed that he could step out and hit a 15' in Portland so to say he "has NO perimeter game" might be at least a little bit of a stretch. That said, I don't want him floating around the perimeter like so many of today's bigs. Plant your butt in the paint where there are few that can deal with you and your your passing ability off the of the block.
 
What's more likely; nurkic starts to hit 3s or Jokic gets quicker laterally to be able to play defense?
 
Scalma said:
What's more likely; nurkic starts to hit 3s or Jokic gets quicker laterally to be able to play defense?
Click to expand...


I'm actually not sure that either of those things are likely.

Again, based on DRtg (from Basketball Reference), Jokic was only slightly worse defensively than Nukic, defensively. Offensively, it was no contest.
 
Mr. Robot said:
good god, I just saw he registered today and he immediately speaks on Jokic vs Nurkic
well observed my friend, kudos to you
Click to expand...

I actually came to see what you guys think Plumlee is worth, from a salary standpoint. There's quite a bit of talk on Nuggets forums about whether the team should prioritize him or not. I was just curious how fans outside of Denver view him, and Portland fans should be able to respond to that better than others.
 
Curious what the comparison is from Nurkic's 20 games in Portland vs Jokic. Certainly that is a small sample size but it was a completely different role for him as well.
 
Socnorb11 said:
Someone actually did say earlier that Nurkic > Jokic. That's just silly.

Here's the thing. Nurkic has NO perimeter game. None.
Click to expand...

Can't tell if you are trolling or just like to exaggerate to make a point. Nurkic is better at some things (back to the basket, blocks, post defense) and Jokic at some things. 66% from the free throw line is hardly aweful, and if you think he can't shoot from the perimeter then you didn't watch him play in Portland.

If you truly believe Jokic is markedly better across the board, then why did her get his lunch money stolen in their head to head matchup?
 
Socnorb11 said:
I actually came to see what you guys think Plumlee is worth, from a salary standpoint. There's quite a bit of talk on Nuggets forums about whether the team should prioritize him or not. I was just curious how fans outside of Denver view him, and Portland fans should be able to respond to that better than others.
Click to expand...
Now that's a topic for intelligent basketball conversation.

We expected he would likely receive offers in the $15m/year range, which is why we were concerned about being able to keep him in the first place. If Denver were planning on keeping him in a starting role alongside Jokic, I'd think the Nuggets should prioritize keeping him. However, having now brought Millsap on, it would seem that keeping him at that level would likely be excessive.
 
Socnorb11 said:
I'm actually not sure that either of those things are likely.

Again, based on DRtg (from Basketball Reference), Jokic was only slightly worse defensively than Nukic, defensively. Offensively, it was no contest.
Click to expand...

DRTG isn't the end-all/be-all, either. Nurkic is a much better rim protector with superior strength.

And also, on/off court numbers suggest that Nurkic's defensive impact with Portland was about twice what Jokic's was in Denver last year. Denver's defense was 2.2 points better with Jokic on the court, per 100 possessions, while Portland's defense was 4.8 points better with Nurkic, per 100 possessions.
 
Reep said:
If you truly believe Jokic is markedly better across the board, then why did her get his lunch money stolen in their head to head matchup?
Click to expand...

Again, it was ONE game.

Why did Nurkic get out-played by Marcin Gortat in the Portland/Washington game?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top