Around the NBA - July 2017 Edition

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Five Second Violation said:
DRTG isn't the end-all/be-all, either. Nurkic is a much better rim protector with superior strength.

And also, on/off court numbers suggest that Nurkic's defensive impact with Portland was about twice what Jokic's was in Denver last year. Denver's defense was 2.2 points better with Jokic on the court, per 100 possessions, while Portland's defense was 4.8 points better with Nurkic, per 100 possessions.
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Nurkic is the better defender, no doubt.
 
Socnorb11 said:
Again, it was ONE game.

Why did Nurkic get out-played by Marcin Gortat in the Portland/Washington game?
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Deflection. You are stating Jokic is better across the board. True we only have one full game to use, but until we have more data that is the best measure. I understand why you don't like it. I wouldn't either if I were a nuggets fan. The truth can be painful sometimes.
 
Socnorb11 said:
I'm not sure what you want here. I specifically used Nurkic's Portland numbers only. I also agree that PER isn't the be-all and end-all. Someone actually did say earlier that Nurkic > Jokic. That's just silly.

Here's the thing. Nurkic has NO perimeter game. None. Couple that with the fact that he's an awful free throw shooter (which means you can't have him in the game when it's on the line), is a turnover machine, and a worse 2-point shooter than Jokic, and Jokic being the best passing big-man in the game.................... there really isn't much comparison.
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Stop looking at numbers in DEN. Look at the POR numbers. Cherry picking doesn't help your cause.
 
Socnorb11 said:
Tell me which stats you want to use.
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No thanks, don't want to get into a cherry-picking battle.

Nurkic is a much better defender. Nurkic is going to be much better next year because he'll have a full training camp as the surefire starting C and will be in the best shape of his life.

What it comes to DEN vs. POR, we have the top 2 players in that matchup, and its arguable that we have the top 3.
 
This whole Nurkic vs. Jokic debate is really kind of silly. They are former teammates who play the same position, but that's where the similarities end. They are two completely different players, and for both of them, it's more about fit than talent.

Simply put, Jokic is a better fit in DEN and Nurkic is a better fit in POR.

DEN needs a "modern" stretch 5 in their system and POR needs a traditional beast in the middle in their's. Jokic gives DEN what they need. Nurk gives POR what we need.

At first glance, many would say Jokic would be the PERFECT center in the Stotts system, but if you look at the rest of our roster, that could not be further from the truth. We have great guards on the perimeter. Our starting backcourt averaged 50.0 ppg. We don't need a perimeter oriented center. We need a center that can set good picks, be a legitimate low post scoring threat, defend the pick and roll and protect the rim. Those are all things we lacked before we got Nurkic, and those are also all things he does better than Jokic. That's why Nurk was so successful in POR. He filled many needs and addressed several of our biggest weaknesses.

DEN's staring backcourt averaged half of what ours did (25.1 ppg). You could easily argue that Jokic is their BEST perimeter player. He just happens to be a center. He's a great fit in their system, with their roster. Nurk destroyed him in their one head-to-head match up, but it was just one game. LaBradford Smith once out scored Michael Jordan 37 (15-20 FG) to 25 (9-27 FG). JUST ONE GAME.

We all expect great things from a highly motivated, physically fit Nurkic. I'm sure DEN fans expect great things from Jokic. Both of these guys are still really young and still improving. We're still several years away from declaring one definitively better than the other. Given the vastly different styles of play, we may never be able to really say one is better than the other. It will all be about fit and continued development. Anything that Nurk accomplishes will not detract from Jokic's accomplishments, and vise versa. The results will be determined on the court, not in an internet forum.

Let the salty DEN fans have their say. We love our Nurkic. They love their Jokic. I want to wish those guys a happy summer.

BNM
 
Socnorb11 said:
I already did that, much earlier.

You apparently didn't see it.
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You should stop looking for things to make sense when you talk about Nurkic in a blazers forum. He is like the second coming of Olajuwon in the head of most fans. Just look the other way and ask your Plumlee questions.
 
Socnorb11 said:
Again, it was ONE game.

Why did Nurkic get out-played by Marcin Gortat in the Portland/Washington game?
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I'm gonna need you to have a reality check:

It was the MOST important game of your season.

Nurk DESTROYED and made Jokic his girlfriend for the evening. We both saw that and you are dismissing it. For you I just have one question:

Are y'all having happy Summer?
 
GDiama said:
You should stop looking for things to make sense when you talk about Nurkic in a blazers forum. He is like the second coming of Olajuwon in the head of most fans. Just look the other way and ask your Plumlee questions.
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Lmao. 19ppg/13rpg/4apg/2blk per 36 minutes. All while being out of shape and adjusting to a new team. The hype is deserved.
 
BonesJones said:
Why does Denver have the saltiest fans in the league?
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If they don't resign Plumlee then that trade looks catastrophically bad for them. That means they gave up a budding star and a draft pick in a deep draft for a 30 game rental of a backup who couldn't even help them make the playoffs. That deal is likely worse than the Felton and Afflalo trades were combined.
 
dviss1 said:
I'm gonna need you to have a reality check:

It was the MOST important game of your season.

Nurk DESTROYED and made Jokic his girlfriend for the evening. We both saw that and you are dismissing it. For you I just have one question:

Are y'all having happy Summer?
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They got Millsap. We got...nothin'. I think their summer's probably going OK.
 
dviss1 said:
Did you want to pay him 30 Mil per? I'm good. They can have that plus a happy Summer and no playoffs next year.
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In place of the $35M/year we pay Crabbe and Turner? Gladly.
 
Five Second Violation said:
If they don't resign Plumlee then that trade looks catastrophically bad for them. That means they gave up a budding star and a draft pick in a deep draft for a 30 game rental of a backup who couldn't even help them make the playoffs. That deal is likely worse than the Felton and Afflalo trades were combined.
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#facts
#nosaltnecessary
#watchingmysodiumintake
 
There was a reason nurkic started over Jokic initially as well. He was probably owning him in practice every day.
 
Five Second Violation said:
If they don't resign Plumlee then that trade looks catastrophically bad for them. That means they gave up a budding star and a draft pick in a deep draft for a 30 game rental of a backup who couldn't even help them make the playoffs. That deal is likely worse than the Felton and Afflalo trades were combined.
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Portland appears to have "won" the trade. I can't dispute that. Denver didn't have much choice though, to be honest.
 
The only thins Jokic does better than Nurkic is shoot and pass. Considering they play center, those are luxuries, not to mention the fact that Nurkic is an above average passer himself.
 
Socnorb11 said:
I'm not sure if you're being serious here, or not.



Portland appears to have "won" the trade. I can't dispute that. Denver didn't have much choice though, to be honest.
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Huh? Y'all could have chosen not to trade... As well as NOT give up a pick for the guy who ain't re-signing... Plums is good as gone.
 
Socnorb11 said:
I'm actually not sure that either of those things are likely.

Again, based on DRtg (from Basketball Reference), Jokic was only slightly worse defensively than Nukic, defensively. Offensively, it was no contest.
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You realize DRtg is a shit stat for comparing individual defense across different teams, right? It's greatly impacted by the defensive play of your teammates. It's marginally useful for comparing the defense of two players on the same team, but not for comparing two players in different systems with different teammates. It's also about fit/role. POR was last, or near last in team defense for much of the year. 20 games of Nurk pulled us all the way up to 24th overall, for the season. His DRtg is impressive compared to the rest of the team.

In DEN, Jokic, Nurkic and Plumlee all had the same DRtg of 109, yet when we swapped Plumee for Nurkic, our team defense got WAY better.

So, I'd shy away from using DRtg to try to prove anything.

BNM
 
Scalma said:
The only thins Jokic does better than Nurkic is shoot and pass.
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Shoots better from 2-point range, shoots better from 3-point range, and shoots better from the free throw line (so technically, you are correct).

Also, he doesn't turn the ball over at the rate that Nurkic does.
 
BonesJones said:
Lmao. 19ppg/13rpg/4apg/2blk per 36 minutes. All while being out of shape and adjusting to a new team. The hype is deserved.
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When he is on the court , the hype is deserved. Can't ignore that he's missed 25% of games in his 4 years due to injury. Never played more than 65 games in a year.
 
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