Batum's Inconsistency (1 Viewer)
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Stats be damned, some people won't budge off of their positions.
Anthony and James aren't on the list because Anthony didn't average 5 assists, and James didn't average 7 rebounds.
Also, while Kawhi Leonard had a very good NBA Finals (18/6/2), his overall playoff stats were 14/7/2, meaning he wasn't consistent, either. He had 5 playoff games of over 20 points, and 3 of them happened to be in the NBA Finals. That doesn't seem very consistent to me, considering the Spurs played 22 postseason games.
For the season, Leonard went 13/6/2. I suppose saying assists don't matter is one way to try and discredit Batum's season, but when you're asking why Anthony and James aren't on the list with Durant and Batum, you're kind of defeating your own argument. I happen to think Leonard is a very good player, much like Tayshaun Prince. Offensively, he can't come close to comparing to what Nic is doing, though, at this stage of his career.
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It's actually making my argument
Who cares what his obscure filtered stat line is when it doesn't prove he's better than other players not on the list
It's nice gimmick to pull, but that's all it is
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You may want to take a look at USG% too before you go down the PER road. Just a friendly hint.
Come up with someone else besides Prince? Why would I do that?
I've already said I think Prince is a pretty good comparison for Nic. Am I' required to think of every comparison possible, while you sit there and don't even make one?
Prince and Batum played pretty similar roles with similar numbers, and both are best suited as role players on championship teams.
Kawhi Leonard is better than both.
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Kawhi Leonard isn't just "a scoring wing". He shoots the 3, hits over 50% from the field overall, has a low usage rate, and plays excellent defense. Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom are the only forwards who have ever put up a season comparable to Leonard's combination of those things. Nobody's ever done it before age 25.
http://bkref.com/tiny/KsoS1
It's not hard to cherry pick stats to make a player unique.
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I agree...
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Batum's a much better offensive version of Prince. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems like you're debating arguments that nobody in this thread is making. Is Batum a star? Of course not, unless you count the French national team, I suppose. I'm excited to see how Nic performs at the FIBAs, because he's basically the lead option on that team w/out Parker playing.
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TS% has more to do with PER than USG%
Friendly hint
Yet Nic had a higher TS last year than Prince has ever had (.586 vs. Prince's best of .556 in 2004-05), yet with a much lower USG. The USG is inflating Prince's PER. Again, you're defeating your own argument if you're using PER to strictly measure the players.
blue9
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For years I've been saying that Nic is the amalgamation of the best parts of Prince, Battier, and Posey.
I think the Prince comparison is apt, but only for the ROLE - Nic is clearly a much better player than Prince ever was.
As to the whole Nic vs Leonard strawman - different roles, teams, and coaches. If you could equalize that then I think there's a very good chance that Nic would be the better player. Leonard has the HUGE benefit of playing for the best coach in the game, on the best team in the league.
What do you think my argument is? That Prince is better than Nic?
I never made that argument in this thread, so I'm not sure what your point is.
I have said that Kawhi Leonard is better than Batum, though.
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Is anybody saying Leonard isn't a very good player? I assume he was Finals MVP for a reason. He's going to make a lot of money after this season, just like Nic, because he's so versatile. I wonder if Spurs fans will whine if he has a 13/7/5 season?
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I might be wrong on this one, but I'm pretty sure Nic has the highest TS% on our team. (Is TS% the same as AFG% and/or EffFG%?)
Well I've been hearing how great of a coach Terry Stotts is. Seems like Nic is in a fine situation, so I don't think the Pop angle applies here all that much.
I would agree that Nic is better than Prince, but closer than people here seem to think. Prince was a vital player for those Detroit teams. Very intelligent and played both sides of the floor, and filled the point forward role.
Underrated player.
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Nate was basically saying that he's a dime-a-dozen small forward; that Leonard is good, but Batum is special because he's unique. I was just pointing out that Leonard is pretty unique too.
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I don't see how posting ppg/rpg/apg/spg/bpg is considered "cherry-picking" stats. These are the basics of basketball statistics. I guess a triple-double should be considered irrelevant, since it's a "cherry-picked" statistic.
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Ah, got it. Leonard is a very good role player; one of the best in the NBA. He's like Batum and Lance Stephenson in that regard. Leonard is going to get the chance to be the primary scorer for the Spurs over the next few seasons, so then I'll be better able to assess if he's truly a star player. As it stands now, Batum and Leonard can't be considered stars by me, simply because their teams aren't asking them to fill those roles.
The point is who cares when there's clearly guys better than him that aren't on the list
So his assists are good for a SF. Good job, good effort.
His pts and rebounds are what you would expect out of a guy making $11M per year
I just don't think the filtered stat line proves all that much.
blue9
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Hahahahahahaha! Yeah, Terry and Pops are equals. Sure thing.
I agree. Prince was vital to the Pistons championship team. Just as Nic will be to ours. I don't think a Prince comparison is a negative in any way (but it seems like you're trying to make it negative, despite your comments to the contrary). I do think the comp needs to come with the caveat that Nic is definitely a better player, otherwise people will think your saying Nic is only AS GOOD as Prince. The comparison only works on the level of what they provide to their teams (ie, role), not on the level of individual talent and ability.
Natebishop's line saying Batum is a rarer player than Paul George is the worst line of the thread
Like you honestly don't believe Paul George could take a lesser role, average fewer shots, be more of a facilitator and average at least 5apg?
Come on.
The great players in the NBA could do exactly what Batum is doing right now if they wanted to take a lesser role.
Instead they're too busy leading their teams.
Like you honestly don't believe Paul George could take a lesser role, average fewer shots, be more of a facilitator and average at least 5apg?
Come on.
The great players in the NBA could do exactly what Batum is doing right now if they wanted to take a lesser role.
Instead they're too busy leading their teams.
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Tayshaun Prince made $11m in 2010-11.
His stats?
14/4/3 with a 15 PER on 21 USG. TS% of .511. I'd love to seen the Piston board's version of RoyToy during the seasons Prince was making ~$10m/year.
His stats?
14/4/3 with a 15 PER on 21 USG. TS% of .511. I'd love to seen the Piston board's version of RoyToy during the seasons Prince was making ~$10m/year.
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They're also making max money. Batum's production for $11m is right in line for what he gives the team. I think he's a bargain at this point, actually, and wonder how much it's going to cost the Blazers to re-sign him.
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Fun thread, though. I finally get where RoyToy's coming from, and although I don't necessarily agree with his opinion on Batum's game, I can agree that Nic is a role player. As I posted earlier, it will be interesting to see what he does at the FIBAs as a primary option on offense.
No one said that. Bad line from you
I've said that they're comparable players and that Nic is better.
As of right now I don't really think it's a huge gap, no, and that's not because of what I think of Batum.
Prince was just a damn good player. People have said there's no comparison offensively, but I don't necessarily agree with that. I think Prince had some abilities that Batum doesn't or aren't on the same level (ball handling, post game, isolation). I think Prince is better in those areas.
I don't agree it's a bargain
It's more market value and about where he should be. I get that someone might say Parsons is making $15M so $11M is a bargain, but Parsons was overpaid.
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Wait, after reading this thread I've learned the following...
1. Every stat posted by anyone other than RoyToy is pure junk. Only the stats posted by RoyToy mean anything.
2. Batum sucks because he is not as good as Lebron, Durant, Carmello or Leonard.
3. Mags seems to get his Leonards confused.
1. Every stat posted by anyone other than RoyToy is pure junk. Only the stats posted by RoyToy mean anything.
2. Batum sucks because he is not as good as Lebron, Durant, Carmello or Leonard.
3. Mags seems to get his Leonards confused.
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