exactly. It's a well formed opinion piece that fits better with my recollection of events unfolding then most of the other local hacks versions... but I wouldn't hang my hat on it being a definitive version of the truth.
I wouldn't say this is news. KP was saying in October 2008 that most of us at the M&G probably knew more about the cap than he did, and that he relied on Penn for that stuff.
I don't know if anyone else had this idea also, but it was KP's relationship with Jeff Ma that got the Blazers either access to his eval system or got him to tailor it to KP's needs. Don't know which. And there are definitely more people than Jeff Ma out there for this type of work (a lot work for Morey or wish they did), but he's one of the first I'd heard about.[/quote]
Fair enough, but again, much like any organization. Lee Iacocca and Bill Clinton get undeserved credit and undeserved blame, why is a GM of basketball team different? Like those guys, though, it seems as if KP surrounded himself with competent people (Penn, Born, Buchanan, Ma)
Out of pure curiosity: I know that sometimes players don't respect a coach that never played...what about a GM? Would they be more in tune with KP since he played, or less b/c he was a "scrub", in their eyes? Anyone have a feel for this is general?
I don't quite get this. I understand that it could've happened that way, but wouldn't Ammo being destroyed by Gay or Roy at least change his mind? Why would he flip out? If he has a preconceived notion, why have the workout?
I've heard KP praise Filippi by name, as well as the rest of the staff. For all his foibles, at least publicly he conforms to the "pass praise down, take responsibility yourself" mantra
See above. Maybe it wasn't "public" enough.
First, duh about others thinking they could do better if in his position. Hell, I do that (though I'm sure I'm the only one on this board who thinks like that). And duh that LeGarie is not getting another cent in commission from Paul Allen.
Wait, MM works for Vulcan?!?!
We've heard about Roy's durability since before the talus bone days. Just about all of us on here agree that LMA isn't a real #2 option, but a decent fit in Nate's offense. I don't know about Oden not being a cornerstone. If you think Roy has 2 years left, why the heck wouldn't you trade him?
)...the extensions of Roy ( ) and LMA (overpaid?) ...the big trades for Bayless (meh) , ZBo (meh-to-blech), Camby ( )...the little trades for Ruffin, Wafer, etc. (whatever)...the drafting of Batum ( ), Claver (?), Rudy (meh?), Sergio ( 
), Freeland (?), Mills (?), Green ( ), JP and Dante ( to homerific "meh"), the Hedo Affair ( ), the Toxic Offer ( ), Miller (meh-to-ok) It's at least debatable.
One more thing that was more in the KP v. Presti thread from a couple weeks back: Artificially (for the moment) forgetting everything that happened in 2006...judging KP ONLY on what happened since March 2007....does it make sense that he would be the guy creative and talent-savvy enough to make the 2006 draft work? It sure doesn't seem that Patterson was. But the moves he's made since then only look great if given that the "Golden Boy" made them, and as such it's above our comprehension to judge. The contracts of Webster (meh), Blake (meh) , Outlaw (
Using those as a guide, would you say that that's a guy who shows the chops to pull off a 2006 Draft Night? Or is it more that he got to be the Anointed Face of Goodness for those things happening, we all ate it up, and his subordinates didn't like seeing one of them getting tons of praise for basically going along with the team plan?
EDIT: I just read Sly's post. Gabriel might be the missing piece of what this post is discussing.
One more thing that was more in the KP v. Presti thread from a couple weeks back: Artificially (for the moment) forgetting everything that happened in 2006...judging KP ONLY on what happened since March 2007....does it make sense that he would be the guy creative and talent-savvy enough to make the 2006 draft work? It sure doesn't seem that Patterson was. But the moves he's made since then only look great if given that the "Golden Boy" made them, and as such it's above our comprehension to judge. The contracts of Webster (meh), Blake (meh) , Outlaw (
Using those as a guide, would you say that that's a guy who shows the chops to pull off a 2006 Draft Night? Or is it more that he got to be the Anointed Face of Goodness for those things happening, we all ate it up, and his subordinates didn't like seeing one of them getting tons of praise for basically going along with the team plan?
EDIT: I just read Sly's post. Gabriel might be the missing piece of what this post is discussing.
Um yeah, the point would be to take Ammo and trade him to us for TT. Instead of Aldridge. Unless they were REALLY afraid the Bobcats would take TT.
One more thing that was more in the KP v. Presti thread from a couple weeks back: Artificially (for the moment) forgetting everything that happened in 2006...judging KP ONLY on what happened since March 2007....does it make sense that he would be the guy creative and talent-savvy enough to make the 2006 draft work? It sure doesn't seem that Patterson was. But the moves he's made since then only look great if given that the "Golden Boy" made them, and as such it's above our comprehension to judge. The contracts of Webster (meh), Blake (meh) , Outlaw (
Using those as a guide, would you say that that's a guy who shows the chops to pull off a 2006 Draft Night? Or is it more that he got to be the Anointed Face of Goodness for those things happening, we all ate it up, and his subordinates didn't like seeing one of them getting tons of praise for basically going along with the team plan?
EDIT: I just read Sly's post. Gabriel might be the missing piece of what this post is discussing.
So you're going with the "even though he wasn't the GM, and even though there's mounting evidence that KP didn't run the show in 2006, you're still going to believe the hype"?
I don't listen to WEEI much, but I've never heard a single person (much less Ainge's boss at the time it happened) say anything differently than it was Danny who pulled off that trade.
I don't get this one. But if you remove all of the steroid-infested seasons from Mark McGwire's record, does he still get into the Hall of Fame for being a Home Run Legend? Nope. See...after-the-fact information changes public perception that was unwarranted previously.If you remove the extra base hits from an Albert Pujols' season, does what's left suggest a player who could hit 40 homers a season? Who really was swinging the bat for him those times?
You're welcome to your opinion, obviously. But no one has ever doubted that Pujols hit his own homers unaided, or that Ainge was the ringleader behind that draft.
Of course, not every decision works out. And if you want to take a look at the transactions I pointed out since KP had been GM and say "he's a great GM based on the other moves, I could totally see that", then fine.
Yet you're saying that it's as likely that he did as Pujols hitting his homers or Ainge making the KG/Allen trades, which isn't so.
That's the answer I was looking for. For you it is. And I'd imagine you'd say that it isn't for Patterson and Gabriel?
Yet when info comes out that says he wasn't, you're discounting that. Since it's in dispute, I'm asking if you artificially remove the disputed parts, if it shows that it's something that's in their sphere. Specifically...KP has talked about a lot of trades...a lot of trade ideas have been rumored to be close, KP's made "1000's of phone calls" in trade deadline weeks, yet there's only been two trades of significance that he's ever pulled off...Camby and ZBo. Yet you're saying it's logical that an assistant GM who's never been more than a interim coach and Player Personnel director sets up a multi-team, multi-path deal to and consummates within 12 hours the ability to trade his starting PG and bad contracts for the #7 and bad contracts, while also jockeying high-lotto picks around with CHI, AND keeping up the intel on what MIN and HOU were doing so he could outmaneuver them for Roy?
Of course not. But pulling off that move wouldn't have been, say, Mitch Kupchak's or Danny Ainge's greatest success. And it would've been absurd to think Elgin Baylor could've pulled that off. There's room to interpret there, and you've interpreted that it makes sense that KP was in charge then. I think it's grayer than that.
You said that Roy/LMA was KP's greatest success. I'm saying it's debatable, and that the rest of his track record doesn't necessarily scream "Mover-and-shaker-who-consummates-big-deals-at-pressure-times"
How is the PR business, Brian? Did you finally get a client? It appears you did.
http://www.brianbergerpr.com/
Heh, just wait'll his kids become teenagers.
