CIA: Russia influenced the election

[riverman]

Naw! Several history books on the subject, read one before you correct me. Yes Stalin agreed to open a second front with Japan at Yalta after the Germans were defeated. How ever he did not until the Japanese tried to use the Russians to surrender after the Americans dropped the first bomb.
Look up the fucking dates.

When Russia talked with Japan after the bombs.....let's just say the parameters had changed pretty fucking much......you are talking about what....2 days after the bombing? Point is......we opted to go solo and blow off Russian collaboration...then Truman started trying to be a tough guy and threatened Stalin....start of the cold war...right there....you can fill in any dates you want but the cold war was Truman's fault

 

[riverman]

read one before you correct me

did you read the article I posted? consider yourself corrected...anybody can write history books.....the Kuomingtan history books in Taiwan were completely false until Lee Tung Huei made them correct them.....no mention of genocide Chiang Kai Shek practiced against the Amei and Fukienese Taiwanese people. not saying your reading material is wrong but don't act like I haven't studied history a bit...I have.

 

[Denny Crane]

The US, Britain and Russia had those talks so of course they were aware.....we just didn't mention the bombs

And?

 

[Denny Crane]

FDR surrendered Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union, dooming generations to a brutal existence.

Surrender being used in a different meaning here. As in, to hand over.

 

[riverman]

And?

arms race....and according to recent Trump tweets..we're just getting started! You hawks will cream yourselves. We in fact have weapons of mass destruction...whopeee!

 

[riverman]

FDR surrendered Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union, dooming generations to a brutal existence.

Surrender being used in a different meaning here. As in, to hand over.

You seem to look at international relations as possessions we own.....how do you hand over a sovereign nation to itself? The Soviet Union is dead....just like your oceans. Russia suffered more from that war than any country in Europe

 

[Denny Crane]

FDR also wanted to be king of the world. As head of the UN. Being president of the US not enough.

http://content.law.virginia.edu/news/2004_fall/un.htm

Roosevelt was so committed to the idea of an international collective security organization that "he wanted to quit the presidency and become the U.N.'s first secretary general. This is what he really wanted to be remembered for."

 

[Denny Crane]

You seem to look at international relations a possessions we own.....how do you hand over a sovereign nation to itself? The Soviet Union is dead....just like your oceans. Russia suffered more from that war than any country in Europe

After the war, Stalin murdered 10s of millions of his own citizens. Suffer, shmuffer.

To the victors go the spoils of war.

We did occupy Germany and Japan for a decade. No surrender there. Remember the learn from hindsight statement I made?

 

[stampedehero]

Latest Trump picks up lunch tab for Putin 1/21/17

 

[Denny Crane]

arms race....and according to recent Trump tweets..we're just getting started! You hawks will cream yourselves. We in fact have weapons of mass destruction...whopeee!

Do you think it valuable to have nukes that you have no idea they'll actually work?

The nuclear modernization program is yet another $1T Obama idea.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...s-nuclear-boast-is-obama-s-modernization-plan

Now do you like it?

 

[riverman]

After the war, Stalin murdered 10s of millions of his own citizens. Suffer, shmuffer

Correct and Stalin is well known for his evil.....but look at what happened to Russia during the war..it was gutted unlike any country post war in history....everything was wiped out.....the whole infrastructure...and these guys were shell shocked before they even knew what it meant...staying sane under attack from Hitler would take it's toil.....so Stalin killed his competition and detractors but that doesn't mean Russians didn't suffer during that war horribly.

 

[Denny Crane]

How do you defend this?

 

[Denny Crane]

Correct and Stalin is well known for his evil.....but look at what happened to Russia during the war..it was gutted unlike any country post war in history....everything was wiped out.....the whole infrastructure...and these guys were shell shocked before they even knew what it meant...staying sane under attack from Hitler would take it's toil.....so Stalin killed his competition and detractors but that doesn't mean Russians didn't suffer during that war horribly.

Russia was our enemy. Axis power.

Partnering with Stalin seems a lot worse than, say, partnering with Assad. Looks to me like it depends on who's doing the partnering.

We didn't have to surrender half of Europe to that monster.

 

[riverman]

Now do you like it?

I'm for disarming all nukes with weapons capabilities period...never did like it ....you must not actually read my posts

 

[riverman]

We didn't have to surrender half of Europe to that monster

hahaha.......yeah...Europe is our territory...and England's and Russia's...sure...you love to covet foreign assets apparently and returning them is your idea of surrender.....we could have worked with the allies and Soviets to make the world better but fear replaced global peace with a cold war that still exists in some ways.....the Soviets counter punched and also fucked up the opportunity...until Gorbachev...then Reagan fucked that up.

 

[Denny Crane]

hahaha.......yeah...Europe is our territory...and England's and Russia's...sure...you love to covet foreign assets apparently and returning them is your idea of surrender.....we could have worked with the allies and Soviets to make the world better but fear replaced global peace with a cold war that still exists in some ways.....the Soviets counter punched and also fucked up the opportunity...until Gorbachev...then Reagan fucked that up.

"Here's the deal. We let Europe determine its own destiny, or we battle on through Moscow, as Patton wants to do. We have The Bomb. Be afraid."

Reagan won the Cold War and made peace with our enemy, reduced nuclear stockpiles on both sides, and set the stage for a 90% overall reduction, to date.

But yeah, he "fucked it up."

 

[riverman]

But yeah, he "fucked it up."

Gorbachev offered total dismantling of all nuclear weapons...Reagan refused....had peace laid out with a bow and blatantly refused to do it...that's a fuck up

 

[Denny Crane]

Gorbachev offered total dismantling of all nuclear weapons...Reagan refused....had peace laid out with a bow and blatantly refused to do it...that's a fuck up

That's not a fuck up. The cost was too high, and it wouldn't apply to China or other nations who had the nukes.

I think you're reaching.

It's like saying Dame had 99 points, so he fucked up. Only 100 points is acceptable.

 

[riverman]

That's not a fuck up

uh....ok....Gorbachev proposed a plan for all nukes on the planet to disappear.......if that's a reach I want a really long wingspan. Your Dame sentence is what I call a real reach...no weapons of mass destruction vs one basketball point.....3rd grade again? I see where you coined that term....Merry Christmas Denny...hope your family is well and I'm off to work.....enjoyed the argument as my Christmas was spent alone while my family is in Bend for the holiday....I'm subbing for all my wife's shifts...one more 12 hour night shift to go!

 

[Denny Crane]

uh....ok....Gorbachev proposed a plan for all nukes on the planet to disappear.......if that's a reach I want a really long wingspan. Your Dame sentence is what I call a real reach...no weapons of mass destruction vs one basketball point.....3rd grade again? I see where you coined that term....Merry Christmas Denny...hope your family is well and I'm off to work.....enjoyed the argument as my Christmas was spent alone while my family is in Bend for the holiday....I'm subbing for all my wife's shifts...one more 12 hour night shift to go!

There's a little more math to it than Reagan and Gorby.

The Chinese have nukes. They'd have to disarm, too, for there to be zero. And they just might not do it.

N Korea now has nukes. They'll never disarm.

Now what?

 

[riverman]

There's a little more math to it than Reagan and Gorby

not back then there weren't....China loved us after we bombed Japan....they didn't like Russia much though...The US and Soviet Union dictated the future of nuclear arms post WWII....not the Chinese or North Koreans or Pakistanis or Indians. If they succeeded, every one of those countries would follow suit and some didn't have nukes then anyway...and might have never had them to begin with....fact is the world would have been our allies and we'd have no need for the practice of saber rattling

 

[riverman]

Now I'm off for the night....

 

[Denny Crane]

not back then there weren't....China loved us after we bombed Japan....they didn't like Russia much though...The US and Soviet Union dictated the future of nuclear arms post WWII....not the Chinese or North Koreans or Pakistanis or Indians. If they succeeded, every one of those countries would follow suit and some didn't have nukes then anyway...and might have never had them to begin with....fact is the world would have been our allies and we'd have no need for the practice of saber rattling

No, China didn't like us. We killed millions of them in Korea and Vietnam. We were able to deal with China and Russia - if Russia became an aggressor, we'd partner with China to fight 'em. Same with China - we'd partner with Russia. Those two countries shared one of the longest and most militarized borders in the world.

All the other countries would have laughed and let us fall on our sword.

I don't think there was a serious proposal to eliminate all the nukes anyway. Reagan was just so charming that Gorby was open to exploring the idea.

 

[MarAzul]

Reagan was just so charming that Gorby was open to exploring the idea.

And so goes history. The Soviet Union is no more. Russia is not the same thing, no sense in assuming relations should be the same. If Trump can cut a deal where we partner on something, then it should be done if there is benefit.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[magnifier661]

Cheney bankrupted the US with his Howdy Doody puppet talking head GW......get it right or change the channel

Wait... Obama actually doubled the national debt. That means he spent more than all presidents before him combined. That includes the Cheney Bush administration. SAD

 

[riverman]

Wait... Obama actually doubled the national debt. That means he spent more than all presidents before him combined. That includes the Cheney Bush administration. SAD

snowball....and now Wall Street has survived as well as the banking industry, auto industry etc...he inherited two expensive wars...when elected projected the Bush Cheney mess would take 30 years to recover from and he was right....Bush bankrupted the country...Obama inherited a broken system and did a damned good job starting the cleaning up process...history will look back on his terms as actually being an era of damage control....I respect his efforts...now can we stop bleeding money from military involvements and put it into infrastructure? Let's hope so. Reagan put over half the American budget into the war machine....big mistake. Bring home the troops, there's work to do on the homefront for a change mags...and hopefully, your guy can see this

 

[riverman]

No, China didn't like us.

actually the Chinese love us even today...in my two trips through mainland China I found that to this day the Chinese hate the Japanese more than any country and still admire what we did in WWII......China fought the Vietnamese for 300 years....they supported Mao's line under threat of reeducation camps or worse...there's no hate for the US from the majority of Chinese people at all if you actually go there and talk to them. They are tied to the US economy and we are tied to their economy...they know this...the Chinese have a saying that the best way to gain political advantage is through business, not war. Taiwan has survived by investing heavily in China's manufacturing sector.....so much that it would devastate mainland China to attack Taiwan...they rely on the organizational skills of the Chinese.....the last thing China wants is a war with the west...it's probably best to not judge a nation by it's politicians most of the time...Chinese people would love to have freedom of speech and democracy..they just can't talk about it without fear

 

[Denny Crane]

Today.

Not when Nixon was president.

 

[riverman]

Not when Nixon was president

That's sort of like saying Afghani women don't like dancing....Mao had the whole population on a gag order....if you didn't toe the line, you'd regret it..of course the army was populated with 3rd graders and they arrested their teachers and made them weed cabbage