Eating Crow about Scoot

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wizenheimer said:
the point being that last season, out of all the 2-man lineups, the pairing of Simons and Scoot was the worst.

This season, Simons and Scoot haven't played enough together to register, but Simons and Sharpe have and it's the 6th worst 2-man lineup. Grant & Sharpe are the 4th worst. Simons & Grant are the 3rd worst. Meanwhile, Camara and Sharpe are the 3rd best; Avdija and Sharpe are the 7th best.

probably meaning that average, ball-hoggish players like Simons and Grant are not good for young players trying to establish their games, such as Sharpe and Scoot. They aren't even good for each other. By the way, the 2nd best 2-man Blazer combo in Sharpe's rookie season was Dame & Sharpe. But while Dame was ball-dominant, he had good floor-vision and would share the ball. Can't say the same for Simons and Grant
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Seems like you had a conclusion in mind then began pulling specific data to support it.
 
wizenheimer said:
the point being that last season, out of all the 2-man lineups, the pairing of Simons and Scoot was the worst.

This season, Simons and Scoot haven't played enough together to register, but Simons and Sharpe have and it's the 6th worst 2-man lineup. Grant & Sharpe are the 4th worst. Simons & Grant are the 3rd worst. Meanwhile, Camara and Sharpe are the 3rd best; Avdija and Sharpe are the 7th best.

probably meaning that average, ball-hoggish players like Simons and Grant are not good for young players trying to establish their games, such as Sharpe and Scoot. They aren't even good for each other. By the way, the 2nd best 2-man Blazer combo in Sharpe's rookie season was Dame & Sharpe. But while Dame was ball-dominant, he had good floor-vision and would share the ball. Can't say the same for Simons and Grant
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The main point being is it's clearly on Scoot regardless of who he is paired with, but you have tunnel vision with Ant and don't want to think otherwise. This is more on Scoot than anything, and the numbers you posted back that, so everything else beyond that is just your tunnel vision view of Ant.
 
THE HCP said:
I’ll wait 7….SEVEN years to make the comparison.
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Come on big bro lol scoot sucks ass

we were told "he is different than other 19 year olds" and "he is a generational talent". And the reality is he’s trash. Just look
 
AldoTrapani said:
Come on big bro lol scoot sucks ass

we were told "he is different than other 19 year olds" and "he is a generational talent". And the reality is he’s trash. Just look
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You literally have never posted a single thing about Pritchard until he started playing well last month. EVER! Why weren’t you posting about him when he was 20?
 
sheed30 said:
The main point being is it's clearly on Scoot regardless of who he is paired with, but you have tunnel vision with Ant and don't want to think otherwise. This is more on Scoot than anything, and the numbers you posted back that, so everything else beyond that is just your tunnel vision view of Ant.
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I don't care if Scoot is doing poorly right now. I mean, I'd prefer that he was doing well, as long as it wasn't giving us more wins.

As long as he's the main ball handler without ball stoppers for a full season or two.

If he does that and doesn't improve enough then I'll want him replaced as well.

Very simple.
 
Phatguysrule said:
But part of what helps people become superstars is the environment that they are brought into. The Lakers have been good at creating those kinds of environments.

We didn't set the environment up well for their development, IMO.
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Hm. Players like Kuzma and Caruso don’t become superstars because they go to Lakers. Jordan would’ve been the GOAT playing for us. LeBron started his career in Cleveland and was a massive star right away. Well, he was a star before he even came into the league. It wouldn’t have mattered which team he went to.
 
KingSpeed said:
Hm. Players like Kuzma and Caruso don’t become superstars because they go to Lakers. Jordan would’ve been the GOAT playing for us. LeBron started his career in Cleveland and was a massive star right away. Well, he was a star before he even came into the league. It wouldn’t have mattered which team he went to.
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I don't think anybody thought that Scoot or Sharpe was going to be Jordan or LeBron. I'm sorry if I didn't spell that out.
 
sheed30 said:
The main point being is it's clearly on Scoot regardless of who he is paired with, but you have tunnel vision with Ant and don't want to think otherwise. This is more on Scoot than anything, and the numbers you posted back that, so everything else beyond that is just your tunnel vision view of Ant.
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I think you may be confused about who you're arguing with. I have not made the argument that Scoot's problems are Ant's fault. That's been said by others, not me. Scoot has generally sucked

I'm just pointing out that as bad as Scoot was last season, he performed worst with Simons. And Sharpe performs poorly with Simons too. I think the Sharpe numbers probably reveal more than Scoot's numbers
 
wizenheimer said:
I think you may be confused about who you're arguing with. I have not made the argument that Scoot's problems are Ant's fault. That's been said by others, not me. Scoot has generally sucked

I'm just pointing out that as bad as Scoot was last season, he performed worst with Simons. And Sharpe performs poorly with Simons too. I think the Sharpe numbers probably reveal more than Scoot's numbers
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blah blah blah, your little stats don't mean anything son, get a grip.

Sharpe stats were identical last year with or without Ant, did you hear that identical! because I've already been down this road already with another poster.

Stop putting the blame on Ant, it makes ya look silly man.

Blame Scoot and Sharpe for not improving enough, and the coaching staff for putting them in better situations. It's not on Ant, you guys are ridiculous
 
sheed30 said:
blah blah blah, your little stats don't mean anything son, get a grip.

Sharpe stats were identical last year with or without Ant, did you hear that identical! because I've already been down this road already with another poster.

Stop putting the blame on Ant, it makes ya look silly man.

Blame Scoot and Sharpe for not improving enough, and the coaching staff for putting them in better situations. It's not on Ant, you guys are ridiculous
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lol...do you really believe you're making a solid argument by being a caustic little snot?
 
wizenheimer said:
lol...do you really believe you're making a solid argument by being a caustic little snot?
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Yawns, it's past your bed time son.

You're like the other poster, running around in circles and when hit with facts, can't accept it because you have tunnel vision. Rather not waste my time....
 
Seriously we can't tell where either Scoot or Shaedon are headed until we get rid of Ant and Jerami. If that doesn't happen at or before the trade deadline then those guys' development basically loses another year.
 
For all the talk about how ball hogging Simons and Grant are the stats this year don't seem to back that up.

Simons is shooting 14.5 shots/game... thats fewer than last year or the year prior when he started alongside Dame. It' similar to the 14.0 he shot the year he came off the bench half the season until CJ was traded.

Grant is shooting 13.4 shots/game... thats the fewest since he spent a year in Denver where he was primarily a backup.

Seems to me there are plenty of opportunities for Sharpe, Scoot, or others with a small bit of talent to go out and initiate some offense. This roster is actually begging for it. We see Banton and Deni go out there and effectively initiate offense plenty.

I'm all for moving on from our veterans as there is no benefit to having them here, and I consider it a mistake Cronin assembled those pieces on the roster. But I don't see any evidence their holding back young guys from developing. Nor will I expect a bunch of effective scoring to appear out of nowhere from Scoot/Sharpe if those guys sit.
 
Outside of CJ's first two years in the league when he didn't play much the fewest shots he averaged were 17.8/game in Portland

Dame's fewest were 15.7/game as a rookie on a team that had LaMacus, Wes, Batum, etc all as established scorers. His 4th-11th year in Portland he was always around 20 shots per game.

Were seeing none of that 1st or 2nd option shooting volume from Simons or Grant this season. They're basically shooting like 3rd or 4th options as when Melo or Nurkic were here.
 
THE HCP said:
You literally have never posted a single thing about Pritchard until he started playing well last month. EVER! Why weren’t you posting about him when he was 20?
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Dude all I know is when you said nobody would take Pritchard over scoot! Lol
 
SharpesTriumph said:
For all the talk about how ball hogging Simons and Grant are the stats this year don't seem to back that up.

Simons is shooting 14.5 shots/game... thats fewer than last year or the year prior when he started alongside Dame. It' similar to the 14.0 he shot the year he came off the bench half the season until CJ was traded.

Grant is shooting 13.4 shots/game... thats the fewest since he spent a year in Denver where he was primarily a backup.

Seems to me there are plenty of opportunities for Sharpe, Scoot, or others with a small bit of talent to go out and initiate some offense. This roster is actually begging for it. We see Banton and Deni go out there and effectively initiate offense plenty.

I'm all for moving on from our veterans as there is no benefit to having them here, and I consider it a mistake Cronin assembled those pieces on the roster. But I don't see any evidence their holding back young guys from developing. Nor will I expect a bunch of effective scoring to appear out of nowhere from Scoot/Sharpe if those guys sit.
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I don't expect anything out of Scoot or Sharpe. What has happened to them is exactly what I was afraid might happen if we didn't clear the runway for them.

I'm simply hoping they can recover from that if we do give them the opportunity. If their careers are never anything better than what we've seen I will always wonder if it was because they came into a shitty situation.

They have both showed the ability to be quality NBA basketball players. If they wind up not being quality NBA basketball players for any other reason than trouble off the court or injury, then it will be partially the fault of this franchise, in my mind.
 
Phatguysrule said:
They have both showed the ability to be quality NBA basketball players.
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I just haven't seen any proof of that. They both have potential like hundreds of players have all the time that come into the NBA. Most players with a lot of potential don't become stars, or even starters. Thats what makes draft picks super exciting - but also a big gamble.

I still don't understand what makes the Blazers today a "shitty situation" for a high lottery pick in their first three seasons. I'd think this is actually one of the ideal situations for them to realize their potential. No pressure to win, plenty of shots available, plenty of minutes, a coach and GM that are fine with losses. We're seeing other Blazers youth with talent do just fine here in Camara, Clingan, Banton, Deni, etc.

Jermaine Oneal was in a shitty situation.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I just haven't seen any proof of that. They both have potential like hundreds of players have all the time that come into the NBA. Most players with a lot of potential don't become stars, or even starters. Thats what makes draft picks super exciting - but also a big gamble.

I still don't understand what makes the Blazers today a "shitty situation" for a high lottery pick in their first three seasons. I'd think this is actually one of the ideal situations for them to realize their potential. No pressure to win, plenty of shots available, plenty of minutes, a coach and GM that are fine with losses. We're seeing other Blazers youth with talent do just fine here in Camara, Clingan, Banton, Deni, etc.

Jermaine Oneal was in a shitty situation.
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Those young players who are having some success all have a lot more quality college or professional experience then either Scoot or Sharpe

That's not a surprise to me.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Those young players who are having some success all have a lot more quality college or professional experience then either Scoot or Sharpe

That's not a surprise to me.
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I think the Blazers and nearly all NBA teams are as good at developing players as college or other pro leagues.

I don't think anyone is disappointed that Scoot/Sharpe had a learning curve bigger than say Clingan or Camara with more experience who stepped in effectively from day 1.

The disappointment is 2-3 years later we're not seeing any improvements from Scoot/Sharpe. It seems you fault the Blazers with that while I believe it's just Scoot/Sharpe themselves showing us who they ultimately are.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I think the Blazers and nearly all NBA teams are as good at developing players as college or other pro leagues.

I don't think anyone is disappointed that Scoot/Sharpe had a learning curve bigger than say Clingan or Camara with more experience who stepped in effectively from day 1.

The disappointment is 2-3 years later we're not seeing any improvements from Scoot/Sharpe. It seems you fault the Blazers with that while I believe it's just Scoot/Sharpe themselves showing us who they ultimately are.
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If the Blazers are so great at development why aren't any players actually getting better? They are exactly as good as when they got here. Or in some cases worse.

I disagree with you about how good Portland is at development.

Simons has even been getting worse.
 
Phatguysrule said:
If the Blazers are so great at development why aren't any players actually getting better? They are exactly as good as when they got here. Or in some cases worse.

I disagree with you about how good Portland is at development.

Simons has even been getting worse.
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Because the Blazers roster has very little talent.

Ant looked a lot better when he was playing next to guys like Dame, Norm, CJ, Nance, Hart, Melo, Nurk, Brogdon, etc.

Thought Scoot/Sharpe might be talented with a lot of potential - but it was just potential talent. Unfortunately we're seeing the potential hasn't turned into actual effective talent to play well in an NBA game.
 
sheed30 said:
blah blah blah, your little stats don't mean anything son, get a grip.

Sharpe stats were identical last year with or without Ant, did you hear that identical! because I've already been down this road already with another poster.

Stop putting the blame on Ant, it makes ya look silly man.

Blame Scoot and Sharpe for not improving enough, and the coaching staff for putting them in better situations. It's not on Ant, you guys are ridiculous
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Simons is purely a scorer. He’s a not as good version of Lou Williams. Quit apologizing to us.
 
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