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wizenheimer said:
ok...I see that

I guess I'm so used to Portland having no leverage I can't recognize what any leverage would look like
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Even if we had the leverage, I'm sure someone would take the minimum to play in L.A.!
 
Hollinger’s FA money model is dead to me after last summer when the formula checked DJJ as a player who should get more than the MLE but less than the max.

He’s a fringe player.
 
MickZagger said:
Okay, even 6’7” SF’s are hard to deal with when you’re 6’3”
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Is there a much of a difference between:

Small Forward #1
Height 6'7
Wingspan 6'7
Standing Reach 8'7

Small Forward #2
Height 6'3
Wingspan 6'10
Standing Reach 8'6.5
 
Here are some players who have a standing reach within an inch of Norman Powell's:
Cam Johnson
Miles Bridges
Rodney Hood
Doug McDermott
Eric Paschall
Kevin Porter Jr.
Tobias Harris
Evan Fournier
Gordon Hayward

Here are players with an equal or shorter standing reach:
DeMar Derozan
Jaylen Brown
Kelly Oubre
Jake Layman
Caris Levert
Dorian Finney-Smith
DeAndre Bembry
Stanley Johnson
Brandon Clarke
Dillon Brooks
Harrison Barnes
Joe Harris
Jimmy Butler
 
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BonesJones said:
Here are some players who have a standing reach within an inch of Norman Powell's:
Cam Johnson
Miles Bridges
Rodney Hood
Doug McDermott
Eric Paschall
Kevin Porter Jr.

Here are players with an equal or shorter standing reach:
Jaylen Brown
Kelly Oubre
Jake Layman
Caris Levert
Dorian Finney-Smith
DeAndre Bembry
Stanley Johnson
Brandon Clarke
Dillon Brooks
Harrison Barnes
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Man, how does he keep from dragging his knuckles on the ground?
 
MickZagger said:
So you think Normie can hang on a nightly basis defensively against other SF’s?
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What starting forwards are there that'll give Norm trouble due to his size that aren't star/superstar-caliber players? Honest question.

Because I'm not worried about Norm's size against the following starting SFs:
Royce O'Neale
Mikal Bridges
Whoever the Lakers start at SF (They're likely moving LeBron to PF)
Dillon Brooks
Kelly Oubre Jr / Otto Porter
Keldon Johnson
Harrison Barnes
Kevin Porter Jr. (?)
DeMar Derozan
Khris Middleton / P.J. Tucker
Ben Simmons / Tobias Harris
Joe Harris
Jimmy Butler
Jaylen Brown (They might start him there next year)
Evan Fournier
DeAndre Hunter
T.J. Warren (?)
Gordon Hayward

I'm not gonna go into Eastern Conference lottery teams.
 
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BonesJones said:
Here are some players who have a standing reach within an inch of Norman Powell's:
Cam Johnson
Miles Bridges
Rodney Hood
Doug McDermott
Eric Paschall
Kevin Porter Jr.

Here are players with an equal or shorter standing reach:
Jaylen Brown
Kelly Oubre
Jake Layman
Caris Levert
Dorian Finney-Smith
DeAndre Bembry
Stanley Johnson
Brandon Clarke
Click to expand...
The crazy thing about this standing reach argument is that you know better. It's one aspect of size on the court. How tall you are dictates what the player you're defending can see before you get your hands up, that's an aspect of size. That includes spotting their shot and teammates by seeing over your head. Where your center of gravity is dictates how effectively you can defend players backing you down and turning around on you. How tall your shoulders are has a drastic effect on the leverage you can apply to an opponent when fighting for position. There are more things that we know about that makes height and not just reach an advantage.

You know all of this stuff and you continue to harp on only one thing because that one thing isn't height and because of wingspan and shoulder width reach isn't defined by height but you know very well that height... not just reach, is a huge advantage when playing this game. So I think you're being silly and just trying to win an argument that I don't think you agree with.

Do you think that a player with a reach that is equal with Norm's but is three inches taller has any advantage when playing against Norm?
 
illmatic99 said:
So lets play Dame at SF then?
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All I'm saying is guys who compete hard can defend bigger players. I wouldn't rely on that consistency but I believe Powell isn't as undersized as people claim, he's strong, and he can hold his own defending SFs on a night-in, night-out basis.

Now, I'd love to have Dame / Norm / Covington / Siakam / Nurkic because then you'd have the versatility to put Siakam on whoever 2 through 4, so it's not necessarily a defense for keeping C.J... I just think Norm is looked at as more undersized than he actually is.
 
BonesJones said:
What starting forwards are there that'll give Norm trouble due to his size that aren't star/superstar-caliber players? Honest question.

Because I'm not worried about Norm's size against the following starting SFs:
Royce O'Neale
Mikal Bridges
Whoever the Lakers start at SF (They're likely moving LeBron to PF)
Dillon Brooks
Kelly Oubre Jr / Otto Porter
Keldon Johnson
Harrison Barnes
Kevin Porter Jr. (?)
DeMar Derozan
Khris Middleton / P.J. Tucker
Ben Simmons / Tobias Harris
Joe Harris
Jimmy Butler
Jaylen Brown (They might start him there next year)
Evan Fournier
DeAndre Hunter
T.J. Warren (?)
Gordon Hayward

I'm not gonna go into Eastern Conference lottery teams.
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Maybe I’m old school but I prefer size. You’re at a disadvantage defensively when positions 1-3 all your guys are 6’3” and under. Star/superstar players are who you’re going to have to defend if you want to compete for a title.

Powell needs to be our starting 2. I mean I’ll give it time but I don’t think that experiment will work well.
 
B-Roy said:
We were a poor rebounding team last year, and it was worse against Denver. Even if you can consistently get stops, if you can’t get the board what is the point?
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We need to box out better. Hopefully Chauncey will preach that and hold the guys accountable for that.
 
MickZagger said:
Maybe I’m old school but I prefer size. You’re at a disadvantage defensively when you positions 1-3 all your guys are 6’3” and under. Star/superstar players are who you’re going to have to defend if you want to compete for a title.

Powell needs to be our starting 2. I mean I’ll give it time but I don’t think that experiment will work well.
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It'd make things much easier if we had a versatile defending forward instead of C.J. I'm just saying that I don't think Norm is completely mistmatched against SFs like a lot of people seem to think.
 
BonesJones said:
It'd make things much easier if we had a versatile defending forward instead of C.J. I'm just saying that I don't think Norm is completely mistmatched against SFs like a lot of people seem to think.
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I’d do CJ for Tobias Harris straight up.
 
B-Roy said:
We were a poor rebounding team last year, and it was worse against Denver. Even if you can consistently get stops, if you can’t get the board what is the point?
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Rebounding ties in with defense. More often than not a team that’s shitty at defense is shit at rebounding.
 
AmirIcon said:
Because Portland is NOT a destination, Neil is waiting to see who gets squeezed out of the market before offering the money.

There are still some very good players available.
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he does this pretty much every year.
 
blazerkor said:
The crazy thing about this standing reach argument is that you know better. It's one aspect of size on the court. How tall you are dictates what the player you're defending can see before you get your hands up, that's an aspect of size. That includes spotting their shot and teammates by seeing over your head. Where your center of gravity is dictates how effectively you can defend players backing you down and turning around on you. How tall your shoulders are has a drastic effect on the leverage you can apply to an opponent when fighting for position. There are more things that we know about that makes height and not just reach an advantage.

You know all of this stuff and you continue to harp on only one thing because that one thing isn't height and because of wingspan and shoulder width reach isn't defined by height but you know very well that height... not just reach, is a huge advantage when playing this game. So I think you're being silly and just trying to win an argument that I don't think you agree with.

Do you think that a player with a reach that is equal with Norm's but is three inches taller has any advantage when playing against Norm?
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If I have someone standing right in front of me, and you're 20 feet behind them, it doesn't matter if they're 6'3 or 6'6, things in the distance are smaller than they appear. Most defenders don't block passing vision with the height of their head...\

I don't see how shoulder-width affects how high you reach, but if so I don't see why it matters.

In my opinion, it's easier to get leverage fighting for position if your shoulders are lower to the ground. I'd rather put my shoulder in your mid-section then in your shoulder-blades. Most of the time, strength will win out and bigs are normally stronger, but Norm isn't lacking in that department. Meanwhile, you're saying the opposite and that I "know" what you're saying is true, which isn't the case. I'm not being disingenuous like you seem to be claiming.
 
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Scalma said:
The problem with Powell at the three is it pushes Roco to the four and that means we’re gonna get beat on the boards most nights. Not good.
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I agree. But hopefully we'll box out better next year if we run it back. We can't afford not to.
 
BonesJones said:
We need to box out better. Hopefully Chauncey will preach that and hold the guys accountable for that.
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Yeah, coaching is the reason our starting 1-4 are all below average rebounders at their position on their career. Dame is actually okay, but expecting your PG to be a main source of rebounds is a recipe for disaster.
 
B-Roy said:
Yeah, coaching is the reason our starting 1-4 are all below average rebounders at their position on their career. Dame is actually okay, but expecting your PG to be a main source of rebounds is a recipe for disaster.
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It’s partly coaching. There’s been multiple players, specifically non bigs, that played for Stotts, left, and saw a spike in their rebounding percentages. Trent and Crabbe for example. Stotts never believed in crashing boards with multiple players.
 
MickZagger said:
Rebounding ties in with defense. More often than not a team that’s shitty at defense is shit at rebounding.
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I don't fully agree with your premise, but even if we assume it's true:

What's this team's ceiling on defense? Top 15? Maybe 10th? That still makes us an average rebounding team at best.
 
B-Roy said:
Yeah, coaching is the reason our starting 1-4 are all below average rebounders at their position on their career. Dame is actually okay, but expecting your PG to be a main source of rebounds is a recipe for disaster.
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Unless you're among those who consider Ben Simmons a PG
 
B-Roy said:
Yeah, coaching is the reason our starting 1-4 are all below average rebounders at their position on their career. Dame is actually okay, but expecting your PG to be a main source of rebounds is a recipe for disaster.
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It's not any one thing. Definitely not a good rebounding lineup, but we can also box put better and improve that way.
 
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