How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

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BonesJones said:
Because leading up to this thing, that was the best deal they could realistically give up. A lot of people said it was terrible. I disagreed. Thus, we are comparing what we got to that.
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But you're not, for some odd reason you and Eric are inexplicably excluding Ayton from the deal which we literally received in the trade. Just as you don't like fans moving goalposts, why are you doing the same when analyzing the trade as if Ayton wasn't a part of what we got back? It's weird.

Also, you're disregarding and not mentioning the pick swaps which very well may be the biggest part of the deal when it's all said and done.
 
BonesJones said:
Miami's best *possible* offer because they were never trading Bam.

Getting Jrue only matters in terms of what he turned into. The deals are pretty comparable. You can compare the pick haul and player haul.

For example, I think these three 1sts are comparable in value to Four 1sts in Miami's best trade.

I think Williams has a much value as Jovic & Jaquez (but no clear opportunity for growth in role beyond being a backup C)

So it comes down to what they get for Brogdon.
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The day before the trade Jrue pledged to be a Buck for life too...they traded him Any trade with Dame should include an all star in return...Miami choked on taking the risk.
 
AmirIcon said:
But you're not, for some odd reason you and Eric are inexplicably excluding Ayton from the deal which we literally received in the trade. Just as you don't like fans moving goalposts, why are you doing the same when analyzing the trade as if Ayton wasn't a part of what we got back? It's weird.

Also, you're disregarding and not mentioning the pick swaps which very well may be the biggest part of the deal when it's all said and done.
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Pick swaps are great. Miami could've offered them too.

This is why:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/in...-trade-how-bucks-blazers-suns-got-finish-line
 
BonesJones said:
Pick swaps are great. Miami could've offered them too.

This is why:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/in...-trade-how-bucks-blazers-suns-got-finish-line
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Of course they could have but that's irrelevant in your hypothetical exercise. You're making fun of Cronin homers for saying the Miami deal (that never was) was trash but love the deal we got as if they are equal.

Why shouldn't they like the deal we got more than the hypothetical one that Miami never offered?

I'm still failing to understand.

How is Jaquez & Jovic and 3 1sts equal or better than Ayton, Camara, Rob Williams, 3 1sts, 2 pick swaps and Brogdon?

Those deals seem pretty significantly different to me.
 
BonesJones said:
In reality, it does look like the best deal just felt like a lot of people set the bar higher than this.

Diversifying unprotected picks far off in the distance is good. Taking a chance on 1 of 2 teams falling apart to have a top 5 pick is better than only one.

Now if he flipped Brogdon and Williams for two 1sts, then I'd be really happy.
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That's the cherry on top of an already delicious cake that I'd eat anyway!
 
BonesJones said:
Their best package?

Four firsts, Jovic & Jaquez isn't comparable to three 1sts, Brogdon, and Williams? If we can get a 1st for Brogdon then I think the latter is better but (1) I'm unsure whether we can and (2) I still think those packages are pretty comparable.
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All I read from the Miami mouth pieces, fans and national talkers was that Riley was not going to bid against himself and that he should not as Miami was the only destination on Dames list. There were no other offers so Joe should be happy with whatever trash he was given. But it did not work out that way. There was never an offer close to Milwaukee's. No proof of two picks, let alone three where they would have to open one up via OKC. No proof of swaps. No proof anybody wanted Herro and would give up a first. No young talent as they have none. It's all zip, zero, zilch and nada. Miami wanted Dame for $0.25 cents on the dollar, if that. Riley was probably trying to put protection on any picks available. This is all so laughable. Tell me, what is actually what Miami offered, and the source of that?
 
AmirIcon said:
Of course they could have but that's irrelevant in your hypothetical exercise. You're making fun of Cronin homers for saying the Miami deal (that never was) was trash but love the deal we got as if they are equal.

Why shouldn't they like the deal we got more than the hypothetical one that Miami never offered?

I'm still failing to understand.

How is Jaquez & Jovic and 3 1sts equal or better than Ayton, Camara, Rob Williams, 3 1sts, 2 pick swaps and Brogdon?

Those deals seem pretty significantly different to me.
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Yeah, if you lump the separately negotiated Ayton deal onto it, it looks great.
 
BIG Q said:
All I read from the Miami mouth pieces, fans and national talkers was that Riley was not going to bid against himself and that he should not as Miami was the only destination on Dames list. There were no other offers so Joe should be happy with whatever trash he was given. But it did not work out that way. There was never an offer close to Milwaukee's. No proof of two picks, let alone three where they would have to open one up via OKC. No proof of swaps. No proof anybody wanted Herro and would give up a first. No young talent as they have none. It's all zip, zero, zilch and nada. Miami wanted Dame for $0.25 cents on the dollar, if that. Riley was probably trying to put protection on any picks available. This is all so laughable. Tell me, what is actually what Miami offered, and the source of that?
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Idk what happened with Miami. What actually happened doesn't matter because Portland got a slightly better deal than Miami could even offer.
 
With how Cronin has done in the last few days, I wouldn’t be surprised if they announce a trade:
Blazers aquire Dame Lillard for Brogdon and a first round draft pick (from Mil).
 
Bringing up the "best offer" Miami could offer (even though they never did offer, had no evidence they would or could) is dumb, because they didn't offer it nor was there any proof they did.

So to act like fans comparing the realistic offer that the Heat would make and did make vs a mythical trade that isn't based in reality, is intellectually dishonest and pointless.
 
julius said:
Bringing up the "best offer" Miami could offer (even though they never did offer, had no evidence they would or could) is dumb, because they didn't offer it nor was there any proof they did.

So to act like fans comparing the realistic offer that the Heat would make and did make vs a mythical trade that isn't based in reality, is intellectually dishonest and pointless.
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I just think that even if all the stars aligned and they were able to get OKC to change the protections and they were able to find a taker for Herro, the haul that Portland got is still better.
 
julius said:
Bringing up the "best offer" Miami could offer (even though they never did offer, had no evidence they would or could) is dumb, because they didn't offer it nor was there any proof they did.

So to act like fans comparing the realistic offer that the Heat would make and did make vs a mythical trade that isn't based in reality, is intellectually dishonest and pointless.
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Thank you!!

And at the end of the day, Who GAF what Miami "Could have" offered.
 
Strenuus said:
Imo, it's not even in the same stratosphere of anything Miami could offer. So "slightly better" doesn't work. Miami had shit. Lol. It was just flat out better.
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I don't see THAT big of a difference.
 
I understand this topic being a sore subject to some. Here is a point though;

Based solely on the Milwaukee dealings, I would say that Cronin's cache, reputation and all around good will are off the charts. He kept a huge deal in Milwaukee's eyes hush hush for a long time. Even while negotiating with the Suns management. Kept it hush hush with them assuring them that they, the Suns would like their return from the unnamed team. It all worked out and now Joe has incredible integrity with the Suns as well as Milwaukee. But every GM in the league knows this story now. Joe is kinda a rock star at the moment. But of course GM's are judged on their last deal. Just saying, Portland has a well respected GM across the league wether you like him or hate him.
 
BIG Q said:
I understand this topic being a sore subject to some. Here is a point though;

Based solely on the Milwaukee dealings, I would say that Cronin's cache, reputation and all around good will are off the charts. He kept a huge deal in Milwaukee's eyes hush hush for a long time. Even while negotiating with the Suns management. Kept it hush hush with them assuring them that they, the Suns would like their return from the unnamed team. It all worked out and now Joe has incredible integrity with the Suns as well as Milwaukee. But every GM in the league knows this story now. Joe is kinda a rock star at the moment. But of course GM's are judged on their last deal. Just saying, Portland has a well respected GM across the league wether you like him or hate him.
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Joe speaks softly and kindly. He gives the impression that he's too nice for this profession. Riley and Dame's agent tried to steamroll him, and it cost them dearly. They let 2 rotation players leave for nothing in anticipation of a Dame trade that never came. Now, they have a fan base that's pissed that the Heat didn't get Dame on pennies on the dollar. Some of that anger is directed at Heat management, and rightly so.
 
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BIG Q said:
I understand this topic being a sore subject to some. Here is a point though;

Based solely on the Milwaukee dealings, I would say that Cronin's cache, reputation and all around good will are off the charts. He kept a huge deal in Milwaukee's eyes hush hush for a long time. Even while negotiating with the Suns management. Kept it hush hush with them assuring them that they, the Suns would like their return from the unnamed team. It all worked out and now Joe has incredible integrity with the Suns as well as Milwaukee. But every GM in the league knows this story now. Joe is kinda a rock star at the moment. But of course GM's are judged on their last deal. Just saying, Portland has a well respected GM across the league wether you like him or hate him.
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Is it common for a team being kept in the dark about who they are getting in a trade? Crazy. They put alot of trust in Cronin.
 
theprunetang said:
You are just proving my point here.
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Joe had a job today and had to take emotion completely out of it. Pretend you're the GM for a minute.

Dame went to the best scenario he could based on what he wants to accomplish. Joe completely changed the trajectory of our Franchise in one week

Anything else, you're just gonna have to get over it.
 
Somebody help me out here. So we currently have two picks in round one 2024. One of those goes to the Bulls, correct?
 
RonBrewer said:
Somebody help me out here. So we currently have two picks in round one 2024. One of those goes to the Bulls, correct?
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The Blazers pick would go to them if it was out of the lottery. The Warriors pick isn't what they traded, but potentially the Blazers could convince the Bulls to take it instead?
 
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