OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues"

[ABM]

I've never witnessed it, and I can find no evidence to support it.

However, I will say that since there appears to be no evidence of it, if it happened it was obviously removed (also, an action I would support), which would mean this forum doesn't support anybody calling you those things.

In which case, I don't understand what your problem is, or how you can be a victim, since the forum has (allegedly) deleted any evidence of such behavior.

Move on. I have. With much more productive posts.

 

[theprunetang]

Me too. Can't stand it. Used to like Miracle Whip, but lost my taste for that too.

The only time I eat it is in deviled eggs.

Mayo is the King of condiments. I feel like you guys and gals are living in crazy town. I buy the Japanese Kupi Mayo. It is a little more tangy due to only egg yolks. I also make my own when needed. Mayo is heavenly.

 

[ABM]

Unfounded accusations are a bad look. If you can't back them up, we will need to have a beer at the Acropolis.

You can believe me, or not. It matters not to me. I've simply asked the mods to moderate in fairness. I think they've all received the memo by now. Hence, I'll call it moveon.s2

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think they've all received the memo by now.

If we actually read your memos we would have banned Crandc for calling you a racist.

 

[ABM]

If we actually read your memos we would have banned Crandc for calling you a racist.

Now you're a lying. Either that, or you don't know how to read. Or both.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Now you're a lying. Either that, or you don't know how to read. Or both.

It was a joke. You never asked for Crandc to be banned in a memo you never sent me.

But sure, I'm a liar and illiterate.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Lanny]

I've actually been thinking about this after my discussion with @ABM tonight.

Is hater a personal insult?

I'm thinking it's not and here is why...

People can hate lots of things, groups, and individuals.

Saying someone hates a thing, group, or individual isn't necessarily bad or an insult.

In this forum, there are lots of Laker haters.

Currently, there are lots of Putin haters.

As I mentioned before, you can be a hater of Nazis, pedophiles, rapists, etc.

Yes, saying <insert S2 moniker> is a hater of gay people or minorities is insulting.

But saying <insert S2 moniker> is a Laker hater or a tanking hater is not.

What I have tried to do from the beginning is make the Personal Insult Rule very simple to explain and enforce.

Adding Hater to that would require a hell of a lot of qualifiers and/or exceptions.

Sure, the easy way would be to say if you say someone is a hater but if they disagree with that then it's a personal insult...

But again, if you say, <insert S2 moniker> is a draft hater and they reply that they don't hate the draft, they just think we should trade our picks for veteran players, their disagreeing with being called a hater doesn't make calling them a hater a personal insult.

So I sincerely do not think hater is a personal insult.

What does everyone else think?

It depends a lot on how the statement is taken by the receiver. You can use the phrase in a friendly way and you can use it in an ugly way. If that's too difficult to sort out then I guess you have to allow it. I think that given the time and effort that I could sort it out but it wouldn't be easy so it falls in your lap.

 

[Lanny]

I recently had a woman technician that did a wonderful job applying hemo dialysis to me at the privately run Davita. She has short hair and is married with children. When I was 15 I went to a summer session in a University, JESSI. I thought my roommate was gay and now don't give a hoot whether he was or wasn't; I think he wasn't and it's one of the many things I'm ashamed of although I was just a kid. You can't tell a book by it's cover, something I've had to learn the hard way.

 

[Lanny]

The mods are very fair here. They don't read every single post or know the intent off first glance all the time. If you feel you are wronged, report the post. It is that simple. Whining about it is the most dramatic option.

What a wonderful post.

 

[Natebishop3]

It was a joke. You never asked for Crandc to be banned in a memo you never sent me.

But sure, I'm a liar and illiterate.

Are you sure he didn’t send you a memo? Did you check the fax machine?

 

[YamTastic]

Well, regardless if anyone else in here cares about our family situation, or not, it's "real" life for us. Hence, my thread title.

Well, hopefully Alex will figure it out in college.

 

[YamTastic]

Just getting this out there because I think it's vaguely interesting and relevant to the discussion...

A timeline of when I almost figured it out:
8 years old - Felt wrong in my body, like I was monstrous, too big and too clumsy, not feminine. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
10 years old - first suicide attempt, really clumsy and easily thwarted.
14 years old - when I closed my eyes I could imagine the "shape of my soul" as a girl's. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
18 years old - unironically said I felt like I was a lesbian to my roommate. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
19 years old - join Blazers List Talk, annoy the hell out of Ed O because I'm jealous he's smarter than me.
23 years old - second suicide attempt, less clumsy, but narrowly thwarted.
28 years old - An online friend came out as trans; she told me she didn't think I was trans. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
38 years old - I couldn't look myself in the mirror for five straight days and wanted to kill myself, so I opened the box.

The goal, if I'm being frank and honest, is to reduce the number of suicide attempts but reducing the amount of almost figuring it out. I didn't figure it out because by the time I understood what trans even was, I'd compartmentalized my feelings so much and papered them over with Being A Good Son, that I had a ten year task of ripping that down. If I'd figured it out at 14, it wouldn't have mattered because I would have had no access to any drugs or surgery in 1991. But it's not 1991, it's 2022. There are treatments and medicine, and they can stop a less clumsy person from succeeding where I failed twice.

If Alex is expressing things, it's because the words are there, and the concepts are known. It doesn't matter if Alex finds sexual gratification in breasts; that literally changes nothing, and if Alex's father thinks or hopes it does, and is insisting that's just good normal teenage boy behavior, then all he's doing is helping Alex shovel feelings into a box and taping it over with Being A Good Son.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The mods are very fair here. They don't read every single post or know the intent off first glance all the time. If you feel you are wronged, report the post. It is that simple. Whining about it is the most dramatic option.

Well said.

 

[ABM]

It was a joke. You never asked for Crandc to be banned in a memo you never sent me.

But sure, I'm a liar and illiterate.

I see.

 

[ABM]

The mods are very fair here. They don't read every single post or know the intent off first glance all the time. If you feel you are wronged, report the post. It is that simple. Whining about it is the most dramatic option.

I've been saying I wanted to move on for awhile now.

 

[ABM]

Well, hopefully Alex will figure it out in college.

Here's hoping he goes.

 

[ABM]

Just getting this out there because I think it's vaguely interesting and relevant to the discussion...

A timeline of when I almost figured it out:
8 years old - Felt wrong in my body, like I was monstrous, too big and too clumsy, not feminine. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
10 years old - first suicide attempt, really clumsy and easily thwarted.
14 years old - when I closed my eyes I could imagine the "shape of my soul" as a girl's. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
18 years old - unironically said I felt like I was a lesbian to my roommate. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
19 years old - join Blazers List Talk, annoy the hell out of Ed O because I'm jealous he's smarter than me.
23 years old - second suicide attempt, less clumsy, but narrowly thwarted.
28 years old - An online friend came out as trans; she told me she didn't think I was trans. I put that feeling in a box and kept it out of sight.
38 years old - I couldn't look myself in the mirror for five straight days and wanted to kill myself, so I opened the box.

The goal, if I'm being frank and honest, is to reduce the number of suicide attempts but reducing the amount of almost figuring it out. I didn't figure it out because by the time I understood what trans even was, I'd compartmentalized my feelings so much and papered them over with Being A Good Son, that I had a ten year task of ripping that down. If I'd figured it out at 14, it wouldn't have mattered because I would have had no access to any drugs or surgery in 1991. But it's not 1991, it's 2022. There are treatments and medicine, and they can stop a less clumsy person from succeeding where I failed twice.

If Alex is expressing things, it's because the words are there, and the concepts are known. It doesn't matter if Alex finds sexual gratification in breasts; that literally changes nothing, and if Alex's father thinks or hopes it does, and is insisting that's just good normal teenage boy behavior, then all he's doing is helping Alex shovel feelings into a box and taping it over with Being A Good Son.

Very well said, and thanks again for your bold transparency (absolutely no pun intended). I really feel for what you've gone through. I can't imagine how you worked through all of that. So glad you did. So, you made the change when you were 38? How many years has it been? Are you being well received amongst your friends and family? Did your family have any inkling of what was going on when you were pre-teen....or even later?

Just to be clear, while I'm pretty sure Alex's step-dad (actually, my Niece's boyfriend), was pleased to hear Alex was engaging in all the teen boy activities, if Alex tomorrow were to say, hey, I still want to be a girl, he/she would be supported. There is no conflating those situations. The reality here is, it's still all so new to everyone. Alex has been to family counseling. That's not to say he's been to the "right" one. As I understand about the camp, it's a 6-week affair. Very expensive. $600 per day. The kids have to leave phones, computers, even their own clothes, behind. Effectively, they get stripped down to the elements of nature itself. Even when they take a crap, they dig a hole and bury it. Apparently, the concept is to reduce and/or eliminate outside influences and distractions. Apparently, in doing so, the "real" them begins to emerge. There are professionals on staff to help diagnose what's going on. No judgements. If, at that point, Alex determines to be a girl, then support in that space begins. At least that's the way I'm understanding things.

Thanks again for actually dialoging with me. It's appreciated more than you know.

Tim

 

[YamTastic]

Very well said, and thanks again for your bold transparency (absolutely no pun intended). I really feel for what you've gone through. I can't imagine how you worked through all of that. So glad you did. So, you made the change when you were 38? How many years has it been? Are you being well received amongst your friends and family? Did your family have any inkling of what was going on when you were pre-teen....or even later?

Just to be clear, while I'm pretty sure Alex's step-dad (actually, my Niece's boyfriend), was pleased to hear Alex was engaging in all the teen boy activities, if Alex tomorrow were to say, hey, I still want to be a girl, he/she would be supported. There is no conflating those situations. The reality here is, it's still all so new to everyone. Alex has been to family counseling. That's not to say he's been to the "right" one. As I understand about the camp, it's a 6-week affair. Very expensive. $600 per day. The kids have to leave phones, computers, even their own clothes, behind. Effectively, they get stripped down to the elements of nature itself. Even when they take a crap, they dig a hole and bury it. Apparently, the concept is to reduce and/or eliminate outside influences and distractions. Apparently, in doing so, the "real" them begins to emerge. There are professionals on staff to help diagnose what's going on. No judgements. If, at that point, Alex determines to be a girl, then support in that space begins. At least that's the way I'm understanding things.

Thanks again for actually dialoging with me. It's appreciated more than you know.

Tim

I began the process when I was 38, so this was back in 2015; in August it'll have been 7 years. The process was really slow; when I came out to my wife, she didn't take it well. In order to keep her comfortable, I found a therapist, paused my transition for a year, went to couple's counseling. We ended up getting divorced in 2019, which honestly was best. The four years I spent trying to keep her happy were making us both miserable, and we've actually been much better friends since the divorce.

Most friends were good and supportive about my transition, but I found that many of my friends stopped making time for me. Right now, the only person who knew me before my transition that I spend any time with is my ex-wife. Everyone in my life now are people who met me as myself. I don't know if this is natural or not; I assumed it was. COVID hasn't helped there; I did have a group of before-friends I played board games with, but lockdown killed that group pretty definitively.

My parents definitely had an inkling when I was young, but to them I was just having trouble Being A Boy, so they taught me to act like a boy, and encouraged me to go into Cub and Boy Scouts. It's funny you mention that camp; my time spent in Boy Scouts, specifically Boy Scout camp, was some of the most miserable and traumatic of my life. Without the support system I had at home, being at the whims of 50-100 boys who all viewed me as a weird outsider even though I was ostensibly presenting male, I was adrift. I was bullied quite a bit, and I don't know if there's ever been a week where I cried more. Definitely a low point in my life.

I feel like cis people encounter a young person who says they're trans, and they think this is a problem to be solved. Maybe, they think, the child isn't experiencing their biological gender enough, so they encourage behaviors of the biological gender, and push the kid into activities, hoping they'll finally "get it" and just fall into place, that the problem will fix itself. Of course, being trans is not a problem. The World antagonizing trans people is a problem, but in the quest to give their kids An Easy Life, family members often try to encourage hiding from antagonists. Be a better boy and boys won't bully you. You'll learn how to be a man eventually and then your life will be easy, which means we'll have done a good job as parents.

I hope Alex is okay after that very expensive camp. I don't envy her at all.

 

[crandc]

Of course, being trans is not a problem. The World antagonizing trans people is a problem
QUOTE]

Absolutely positively right.

Unfortunately trans people, especially youth, have become a culture war issue for Republicans.

 

[ABM]

I began the process when I was 38, so this was back in 2015; in August it'll have been 7 years. The process was really slow; when I came out to my wife, she didn't take it well. In order to keep her comfortable, I found a therapist, paused my transition for a year, went to couple's counseling. We ended up getting divorced in 2019, which honestly was best. The four years I spent trying to keep her happy were making us both miserable, and we've actually been much better friends since the divorce.

Most friends were good and supportive about my transition, but I found that many of my friends stopped making time for me. Right now, the only person who knew me before my transition that I spend any time with is my ex-wife. Everyone in my life now are people who met me as myself. I don't know if this is natural or not; I assumed it was. COVID hasn't helped there; I did have a group of before-friends I played board games with, but lockdown killed that group pretty definitively.

My parents definitely had an inkling when I was young, but to them I was just having trouble Being A Boy, so they taught me to act like a boy, and encouraged me to go into Cub and Boy Scouts. It's funny you mention that camp; my time spent in Boy Scouts, specifically Boy Scout camp, was some of the most miserable and traumatic of my life. Without the support system I had at home, being at the whims of 50-100 boys who all viewed me as a weird outsider even though I was ostensibly presenting male, I was adrift. I was bullied quite a bit, and I don't know if there's ever been a week where I cried more. Definitely a low point in my life.

I feel like cis people encounter a young person who says they're trans, and they think this is a problem to be solved. Maybe, they think, the child isn't experiencing their biological gender enough, so they encourage behaviors of the biological gender, and push the kid into activities, hoping they'll finally "get it" and just fall into place, that the problem will fix itself. Of course, being trans is not a problem. The World antagonizing trans people is a problem, but in the quest to give their kids An Easy Life, family members often try to encourage hiding from antagonists. Be a better boy and boys won't bully you. You'll learn how to be a man eventually and then your life will be easy, which means we'll have done a good job as parents.

I hope Alex is okay after that very expensive camp. I don't envy her at all.

Again, thanks so much for that. Much looking forward to seeing Rayne (was just informed of the new name). I hope Rayne will be OK, too.

 

[YamTastic]

Again, thanks so much for that. Much looking forward to seeing Rayne (was just informed of the new name). I hope Rayne will be OK, too.

Love the name! Did you get pronouns as well? I'd love to gender Rayne the way they want.

 

[ABM]

Love the name! Did you get pronouns as well? I'd love to gender Rayne the way they want.

I did not. Alex used to call herself "Sarah". Not certain why the name change.

 

[YamTastic]

I did not. Alex used to call herself "Sarah". Not certain why the name change.

Names changing is normal; we get to pick our names, and as we change and evolve in our identity, we might find our early choices don't suit us like they used to. I personally have been through three names: Maddie, Madeline, Stephanie. I'm legally Tisiphone now, though I like Stephanie still as a nickname off of that. I may change my name legally back to Stephanie at some point, since I'm not as angry as I was when I chose Tisiphone in 2020. Though I do like how weird it is!

A reminder that everyone can just... change their names if they want to! It's not some special thing only trans people do.

(Also I used "they" in the 'I don't know what pronouns to use here' way, not the 'I think the pronouns are they/them' way)

 

[ABM]

Names changing is normal; we get to pick our names, and as we change and evolve in our identity, we might find our early choices don't suit us like they used to. I personally have been through three names: Maddie, Madeline, Stephanie. I'm legally Tisiphone now, though I like Stephanie still as a nickname off of that. I may change my name legally back to Stephanie at some point, since I'm not as angry as I was when I chose Tisiphone in 2020. Though I do like how weird it is!

A reminder that everyone can just... change their names if they want to! It's not some special thing only trans people do.

(Also I used "they" in the 'I don't know what pronouns to use here' way, not the 'I think the pronouns are they/them' way)

They collectively changed my name to A2M in here. It really didn't stick with me. Go figure.

 

[ABM]

You're a victim. Don't let anyone else tell you different.

I'm an S2 minority who sometimes feels the need to stand up to things. Don't forget it.

 

[YamTastic]

@YamTastic are you still doing your music projects? I remember checking some of it out previously and digging it.

Yeah, I'm still with The Crystal Furs as their bassist and mixing/mastering engineer; we got signed to a UK label (Reckless Yes), so our last album (Beautiful & True), and our next album (In Coastal Light) are or will be on vinyl! https://crystalfurs.bandcamp.com/

I haven't done any solo stuff recently, but I have been gearing up to: I have a new bass and guitar, and I'm getting a new keyboard in a few weeks (I pre-ordered it, but it hasn't shipped yet).

 

[ABM]

You keep fighting that good fight, you. Let people know the real you. Don't hold back.

Well, considering you have things all figured out, it's purely academic.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm an S2 minority who sometimes feels the need to stand up to things. Don't forget it.

No, you're not a minority.

 

[ABM]

Not about figuring all things out. Thats what life is. We learn a lot throughout life. Some just have more empathy and are more open minded than others. But we all mess up. I'm just saying. Let it all out. Show people who you really are.

PS: While I've been very serious about the racist/hater conversations, the A2M barb was completely tongue-in-check. Pardon the pun. That term has been bandied about in here for years.

In terms of my dialog in here, folks probably know me more than anyone else in here. Open your eyes.