Politics January 6th (1 Viewer)

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Words dont require phulysically violent retaliation. Period. No dispute.
 
Chris Craig said:
You grab the bat you don't think twice

Different situations dictate different responses. Violence isn't always the answer. Most of the time its not. But, sometimes, times like your example, violence is necessary.
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Thats 100% correct. Some things (to me anyway) are cut and dry, like Rivers example. Also, if I come upon someone in need of help /injured from a car wreck or whatever I' wired to respond quickly and help regardless of who it is or situation. Ive had to do this many times in my life. I like to be a peacemaker by nature too. But it doesn't mean I wont fight a criminal or somebody causing danger to my family and/or innocent bystanders.
 
noknobs said:
In my opinion, the complete failure of security of the capital building wasn't about incompetence by the various law enforcement agencies because I can't believe they would all be that bad at their jobs. It feels like someone had to have been in on the coup attempt. I could be wrong though.
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i simply think they got overwhelmed.

They needed support from the national guard, who the DC mayor had requested long before the actual storming of the building. They showed up late at night-- that's the smoking gun I'd go after. Remember Trump replacing all important DOD staff over the past month or so with loyalists? Something to that.
 
noknobs said:
In my opinion, the complete failure of security of the capital building wasn't about incompetence by the various law enforcement agencies because I can't believe they would all be that bad at their jobs. It feels like someone had to have been in on the coup attempt. I could be wrong though.
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that is why the chief needs to be investigated. It’s totally within the realm of possibility that they coordinated letting them in. Personally, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on treason until proven otherwise. I think they are just cowards and saw they were heavily outnumbered and decided to not even put up a fight in some areas.
 
illmatic99 said:
They needed support from the national guard, who the DC mayor had requested long before the actual storming of the building. They showed up late at night-- that's the smoking gun I'd go after. Remember Trump replacing all important DOD staff over the past month or so with loyalists? Something to that.
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That's my point. It was obvious to everyone this was going to happen so why wasn't the national guard there to begin with?
 
Orion Bailey said:
Ive said many times the right and patriot boys are as much of the problem as the exteeme left.
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This is why it's hard to take you seriously. One side is supporting white nationalist bigotry and conspiracy theories while the other side is pushing for universal health care, "green new deals" and equal rights for minorities and you're pushing this simplistic "both sides are equally bad" stuff.

No one said that breaking into buildings or vandalism over the summer was right or okay, but people like you and ABM were way more concerned with that than what caused it in the first place--police being disproportionately more violent to black people than anyone else. When your main concern is about property being vandalized and not innocent black people being killed by police and then you come back with "and anyway both sides are equally bad," yeah, you're going to get blowback because instead of actually taking reality as it is, you're trying to construct a simpler, easier-to-accept narrative of "everyone is to blame, nobody should be singled out."
 
Minstrel said:
This is why it's hard to take you seriously. One side is supporting white nationalist bigotry and conspiracy theories while the other side is pushing for universal health care, "green new deals" and equal rights for minorities and you're pushing this simplistic "both sides are equally bad" stuff.

No one said that breaking into buildings or vandalism over the summer was right or okay, but people like you and ABM were way more concerned with that than what caused it in the first place--police being disproportionately more violent to black people than anyone else. When your main concern is about property being vandalized and not innocent black people being killed by police and then you come back with "and anyway both sides are equally bad," yeah, you're going to get blowback because instead of actually taking reality as it is, you're trying to construct a simpler, easier-to-accept narrative of "everyone is to blame, nobody should be singled out."
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did you ever stop to think of why we were concerned about it? Thst maybe we were concerned be ause we beleive in the movement and we knew the violence would look bad and suppress support as well as bring the right out in retaliation?

maybe we full on support the peaceful movement but believe when it turns violent it curtails the moment snd undermines everything good about it?
Curious. Did you ever ask him or me why we are concerned about the violence?


Sigh... once again just assuming instead of asking for clarification.
Good job!
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
He still won though. And a movement was born. The next version of this, unfortunately, will be more extremist, underground and violent.
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I think a lot of people believe this (not you, though...you don't believe anything you post here!). But it's not actually true. Trump didn't create anything new--he's the culmination of at least 25 years of Republican politics, quite likely 40 years and arguably 52 years (going back to Nixon). Nixon, Reagan, Newt Gingrich were the ones who really drove this strategy of appealing to white resentment and Republicans since then, including notably the Tea Party in 2010, have simply been riding that wave and furthering it. It was inevitable that a Trump-like figure would eventually emerge for the Republicans. If not Trump, Cruz probably would have been a very similar type of figure politically. Someone was eventually going to make the subtext of Republican politics the main attraction.
 
Orion Bailey said:
i would say that would start with people asking others to clarify prior to judging and condemning.
Not everyone is going to know what is and isnt clear to the reader. Its up to the reader to ask for clarification. Not the poster to make sure its clear. If asked, THEN its on the poster to be clearer.
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This might apply if I said I think you support the Proud Boys. I didn't. I didn't make an assumption about your thought process. I don't need clarification about the way you FEEL. My post was in regards specifically to you posting or not posting something. I didn't need clarification on a post you made, because you didn't make a post specifically discussing the events of yesterday only. You both sided it with discussion of the summer.
 
Orion Bailey said:
did you ever stop to think of why we were concerned about it? Thst maybe we were concerned be ause we beleive in the movement and we knew the violence would look bad and suppress support as well as bring the right out in retaliation?

maybe we full on support the peaceful movement but believe when it turns violent it curtails the moment snd undermines everything good about it?
Curious. Did you ever ask him or me why we are concerned about the violence?
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Maybe lots of things, but it's not our job to coax your beliefs out of you, it's your job to tell us your beliefs. If someone seems to be getting the wrong impression from what I'm saying, I attempt to clarify, I don't get upset that they didn't take me out for coffee and interview me thoroughly before responding.

And I don't really believe your current take anyway--if that really were your concern, you wouldn't have spent all summer railing at BLM and violent protests. It would have been a smaller part of your outrage. The larger part would have been, you know, the injustice they were protesting. And you wouldn't be equating them now to the white nationalists who attacked the Capitol.

And I did actually ask ABM some questions and he made it clear he didn't give a shit about BLM or what they were protesting. He just didn't like them protesting, even peacefully.
 
RR7 said:
This might apply if I said I think you support the Proud Boys. I didn't. I didn't make an assumption about your thought process. I don't need clarification about the way you FEEL. My post was in regards specifically to you posting or not posting something. I didn't need clarification on a post you made, because you didn't make a post specifically discussing the events of yesterday only. You both sided it with discussion of the summer.
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lol. Okay
 
Minstrel said:
Maybe lots of things, but it's not our job to coax your beliefs out of you, it's your job to tell us your beliefs. If someone seems to be getting the wrong impression from what I'm saying, I attempt to clarify, I don't get upset that they didn't take me out for coffee and interview me thoroughly before responding.

And I don't really believe your current take anyway--if that really were your concern, you wouldn't have spent all summer railing at BLM and violent protests. It would have been a smaller part of your outrage.

And I did actually ask ABM some questions and he made it clear he didn't give a shit about BLM or what they were protesting. He just didn't like them protesting, even peacefully.
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i call bs. If someone makes a statement you just assume everything the believe based off that statement? You don't ask for clarification?

you can believe what you want. I posted many things in support of blm as well but it seems all you saw or chose to see was my... outrage?


Lmao.

yeah its on you to ask for clarification of my beliefs prior to making a judgment.

its nit up to me to figure out what is clear and isn't clear to you. Thats for you to define and me to then expand upon.
Come on man. Good Communication is based on asking questions. Not making judgmental statements.
Abm is his own man and im not going to speak for him. Ill keep it to my thoughts moving forward. Why? Because i dont know all of abms thoughts and im not going to pretend i do just because of some statements he made online....
 
Minstrel said:
Maybe lots of things, but it's not our job to coax your beliefs out of you, it's your job to tell us your beliefs. If someone seems to be getting the wrong impression from what I'm saying, I attempt to clarify, I don't get upset that they didn't take me out for coffee and interview me thoroughly before responding.

And I don't really believe your current take anyway--if that really were your concern, you wouldn't have spent all summer railing at BLM and violent protests. It would have been a smaller part of your outrage. The larger part would have been, you know, the injustice they were protesting. And you wouldn't be equating them now to the white nationalists who attacked the Capitol.

And I did actually ask ABM some questions and he made it clear he didn't give a shit about BLM or what they were protesting. He just didn't like them protesting, even peacefully.
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let me clarify as well. I don't get upset. I mock. Because when im not clear its usually an attack type of response instead of asking to clarify. So when i get attacked without being asked to clarify i just return the same aggression back. Its. Ot me being upset, its me treating those as they are treating me. Nothing more. Though most aren't able to see they come at me first. And thats why the bs gets crazy from then on.
 
I think trump might very well be impeached. And it's important to remember he can not pardon himself out of impeachment. And he does not have to still be president to be impeached. The goal would be to prevent him from ever holding federal office again, and there would be several repugnican senators who I think would vote in favor of impeachment now, or after Biden is Prez
 
If Trump thinks he might get impeached he will pardon every federal prisoner.
 
Orion Bailey said:
yeah its on you to ask for clarification of my beliefs prior to making a judgment.
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Making judgments? If you post something, it's perfectly legitimate to respond to it based on what it actually says. If you post lots of things, let's say over a summer, it's perfectly legitimate to form judgments about what you believe. Lots of people challenged your views, which you responded to. If you couldn't make your actual beliefs known in the millions of posts you generate, that's on no one other than you.

We know you (those of us who aren't real life friends) through what you post. Maybe think through your posts better rather than complaining that people didn't take the time to spend time learning everything about you. There are a lot of people here--nobody's going to learn everything about everyone else. I haven't judged you as a good person or bad person, a good musician or bad musician or anything else. I've judged your positions based on what you've written. Write what you believe and, if challenged, explain more about what you believe. Yeah, your positions are going to be judged by what you write. Welcome to internet forums--that's how they work. Your real life friends and family are for being understood down to your soul.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
I honestly believe that shutting down his accounts helps him - he can't keep his mouth shut.
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This could help.th87Q2N6RA.jpg You may know, The Iranians have sued him. It would be understandable if they would abduct him, shave his head, duct tape his mouth and parade him around the streets.
 
Minstrel said:
Making judgments? If you post something, it's perfectly legitimate to respond to it based on what it actually says. If you post lots of things, let's say over a summer, it's perfectly legitimate to form judgments about what you believe. Lots of people challenged your views, which you responded to. If you couldn't make your actual beliefs known in the millions of posts you generate, that's on no one other than you.

We know you (those of us who aren't real life friends) through what you post. Maybe think through your posts better rather than complaining that people didn't take the time to spend time learning everything about you. There are a lot of people here--nobody's going to learn everything about everyone else. I haven't judged you as a good person or bad person, a good musician or bad musician or anything else. I've judged your positions based on what you've written. Write what you believe and, if challenged, explain more about what you believe. Yeah, your positions are going to be judged by what you write. Welcome to internet forums--that's how they work. Your real life friends and family are for being understood down to your soul.
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okay. But i have posted my beliefs. Got the tl/dr and crickets.


you really think i need to write a thesis of my thoughts for you instead of just asking for clarification? This is the internet. No one writes out all their thoughts and beliefs to make sure they are understood. Come on man you know this....if you know the internet.
Also. Most here dont recognize my green font most of the time.
 
wizenheimer said:
I think trump might very well be impeached. And it's important to remember he can not pardon himself out of impeachment. And he does not have to still be president to be impeached. The goal would be to prevent him from ever holding federal office again, and there would be several repugnican senators who I think would vote in favor of impeachment now, or after Biden is Prez
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How would a second impeachment prevent him from holding office again?
 
Road Ratt said:
CNN, an old trusted "friend" of mine. Is actually what drove me away from corporate media. I had watched CNN since it came out. It's what you turned to when other news channels went away from a story you were interested in seeing. In 2016 while turning to CNN to watch the "debates", I was blown away by their Dog and Pony show. Instead of asking "hard" questions, they were buddy buddy like, even with republicans. It was a disgrace to watch. So I went to YouTube and found real stories being shown to me. One guy I follow broke the Flint water crisis in Michigan. I trust him over all other media.

The problem with our media isn't just that it is extremely biased. Our media actually hides the truth from all of us. Google was caught hiding search results for Hillary Clinton back in 2016... Google it, if you can! :tongue:

Beyond hiding stories from the people. U.S. media manipulates the crap out of all of us, daily. Both sides teach hatred of other peoples views. Hatred of our enemies, so that we will all support every war congress starts in the name of "Freedom". Our fake TV doctors sell us all on what sorts of products to buy. Shows like The View give you fake TV, and laugh all the way to the bank as they manipulate their viewers. Commercials, we all know manipulate us, of course. When everyone wakes up to how manipulated we all are every single day, maybe our prospectives can truly change enough to accept other peoples views.
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If we’re being honest here, we are “manipulated” almost every hour of every day. Our spouses “manipulate” us. Our kids “manipulate” us. Our parents “manipulate” us. Our friends “manipulate us. Every day events “manipulate” us. It all boils down to what your definition of “manipulate” is......and how willing and able you are to use your own free will to think for yourself in those instances. The truth is always out there if you look long and hard enough. Some folks are smart enough (or at least think they are) to separate the wheat from the chaff. I like to look at myself that way.......but then, maybe I’m self manipulating.
 
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