Notice Joe Cronin New GM

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Wade Garrett said:
I understand these sentiments.
I guess one reason I harp on the "nice...trusted guy.." thing is because, well, in todays NBA, it just may be the most important traits a GM can have.
The league is 100% about relationships.
Honest.
(edit): Make that 120%.
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I believe you. Like I said that definitely should have been on their list of things. What I worry about is that even higher than character and social skills, the Vulcans had price and convenience at the top of their list of qualities they wanted in a GM. It's not inconceivable that Cronin took a deal that wouldn't be taken by more experienced executives or executives with a bigger name and it's also not inconceivable and this is unfortunate, that the Vulcans just didn't want to put in the work to find the person who was undeniably the best candidate for GM of our team.

It's honestly the same concern I had with that first trade being made so quickly. It wasn't that our front office wasn't trying but that they were so intent on getting under the tax that they took what they could get the quickest, so they could set up the CJ trade which because of getting unlucky and not mitigating just how severely luck could impact us, turned out to be a disaster as well. But hey, I don't think it was a disaster for Vulcan, that trade saved them a ton of cash this last season and going forward.

I guess one of my biggest concerns is what Cronin's balance is as far as who he works for. Obviously the Vulcans are his employers but does he only care about making them happy (which would be scary because I don't think they give a shit about winning a championship) or does Joe also feel that in some way he has a responsibility to this fan base. Is he driven more by the need to please his bosses or to win?
 
blazerkor said:
I guess one of my biggest concerns is what Cronin's balance is as far as who he works for. Obviously the Vulcans are his employers but does he only care about making them happy (which would be scary because I don't think they give a shit about winning a championship) or does Joe also feel that in some way he has a responsibility to this fan base. Is he driven more by the need to please his bosses or to win?
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If Cronin is like most people, he is most worried about what is in his best interest. This would likely entail doing as much as you can to make your boss happy without totally ruining your resume. I'm guessing very few GMs put "responsibility to the fans" high on their list when deciding what transaction to make.
 
It seems like the Blazers aren't even trying. Giving the job to someone who's worked his way up through 16 years of mediocrity (or worse) rather than even LOOKING for someone who can be better.... ugh.

And while it's great he's aligned with Billups, I don't think it's a good idea in pro sports to base your management on an unproven head coach.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Billups was 12 in 1988. Was Cronin even alive?
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"He wanted to set eyes on Cronin because of a March day in 1994 in Denver, Colo. It’s when Billups was a high school junior, and he led George Washington High School to its second consecutive Colorado Class 6A state championship. The star on Horizon High, the opponent, was a burly 6-foot-6 center named Joe Cronin."
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Billups was 12 in 1988. Was Cronin even alive?
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They're basically the same age. So clearly, no, Cronin wasn't alive in 1988. Because he looks so young...
 
bigbailes said:
That he didn't back it up and protect the pick by getting the better of the Pels/Lakers pick when LA was in a free fall is a red flag. I want a GM with some foresight, not just taking what is handed to them.
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I have a random thought and question, and I'm doing this without reading the rest of the thread...

But what if they said no to that contingency and they said take this current trade or nothing at all.

Would everyone have been okay with still having CJ here? What would the narrative have been had they not traded CJ at all?

It's revisionist history, yes, but I ask because the alternatives could have been declined and this was the best we could get. (Which in my opinion, this is better than having CJ and get out of that awful contract).

I was mad the pick didn't convey, but we don't know what contengicies he tried for either so it feels weird to blame him for not having contingencies when he very well may have, but was rebuffed.

And this is coming from a guy who still hates the LAC trade, but that was about timing and optics lol.
 
Let's be real here. When was the last time a player even as close to as good as CJ is actually wanted to be a New Orleans Pelican? All this talk about his contract and him not being an All-Star goes out the window when you consider what having a player of CJ's caliber CHOOSING to want to shoulder the responsibility of being the face of THAT franchise. That kind of move is invaluable to a team that is used to losing good players the minute they have the power to force a move (CP3, AD, Lonzo). Griffin's job was on the line. They found a team more desperate than the Blazers! What were they going to do if they passed up on a player like CJ choosing them? Trade for Eric Gordon instead?

The CJ trade not only saved Griffin's job, but may have saved the franchise from considering moving in the next couple years. CJ has since embraced the Pelicans more so than any player in their franchise history.

So yeah, I would have absolutely called their bluff if they said the offer they agreed to was their final offer. There was still 3 days until the trade deadline. Eric Gordon would've cost them a 1st. CJ is better than Caris Levert and he got traded for a 1st and a 2nd which ended up being the 31st pick. Griffin just a few months prior had given up a 1st for Devonte Graham. They had a shit ton of draft capital (still do). The Blazers threw Larry Nance into the deal on top of that.

But no, some of you want so badly to believe that Cronin did the best he could and that CJ had such little value that they couldn't even get a backup in the scenario where they made the playoffs over the Lakers?

Cronin himself said that they left value on the table to get CJ and Norm to destinations they wanted to play for and to do right by them. His own freaking words, but no, let's continue making up narratives that Cronin was lucky to get the offer he got. Combine that with Jake L Fischer saying that opposing GM's couldn't believe how little the Blazers got and Quick saying other front offices were laughing at Cronin being two other team's MVP and there is overwhelming logical reasoning behind the Blazers getting ripped off. I'm sorry but being a GM in sports can be ruthless and Cronin got taken advantage of.
 
Strenuus said:
I have a random thought and question, and I'm doing this without reading the rest of the thread...

But what if they said no to that contingency and they said take this current trade or nothing at all.

Would everyone have been okay with still having CJ here? What would the narrative have been had they not traded CJ at all?

It's revisionist history, yes, but I ask because the alternatives could have been declined and this was the best we could get. (Which in my opinion, this is better than having CJ and get out of that awful contract).

I was mad the pick didn't convey, but we don't know what contengicies he tried for either so it feels weird to blame him for not having contingencies when he very well may have, but was rebuffed.

And this is coming from a guy who still hates the LAC trade, but that was about timing and optics lol.
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It's really hard to believe that they would say yes to a trade that would give us that value and with all of the other picks they had, they wouldn't have budged had Joe been able to put the screws to them. So I'm saying that he may have explored better contingencies and been rebuffed but that's almost scarier than the idea that he just rushed the deal and didn't explore it because that would mean that Griffin just bulldozed Cronin. That Cronin got completely out negotiated and schooled, which is a huge problem. Cronin not being able to say, "So if this trade makes you even better, we get penalized? Fuck that!" is a big problem for me. I know everyone is hung up on the supposed deals that one reporter has said were the only others he heard about that were out there but I don't buy it. I have no proof and it's always conjecture but either Cronin didn't ask for enough or when he did he got bullied and both of those options don't bode well for him.

That being said, he's now way under the tax and he's no longer just the interim GM so maybe now he will either not be so desperate that he doesn't ask for enough or have the clout to play hardball with these other GMs because if you are right and Griffin just said, "This is the best we'll give you with the only possible contingency being the Bucks 2025 first." and Cronin couldn't get him to budge given the fact that in order for the contingency to be triggered the Pels had to get even better than what was projected, when they had 5 better possible contingencies... that's just getting owned. So maybe an interim GM can't push his way through that situation the same way a real GM can. If this is the best Cronin we can get we're fucked because he clearly took far less value back in both trades than he sent out... it would have been close in the CJ/Larry trade if we would have landed the late lotto pick this year but it wasn't even close with that pick turning into the Bucks first rounder in the season where Giannis will turn 30 and he's locked into his contract through that season.
 
Cool. Go rant for two hours on you tube about it.
 
hoopsjock said:
Let's be real here. When was the last time a player even as close to as good as CJ is actually wanted to be a New Orleans Pelican? All this talk about his contract and him not being an All-Star goes out the window when you consider what having a player of CJ's caliber CHOOSING to want to shoulder the responsibility of being the face of THAT franchise. That kind of move is invaluable to a team that is used to losing good players the minute they have the power to force a move (CP3, AD, Lonzo). Griffin's job was on the line. They found a team more desperate than the Blazers! What were they going to do if they passed up on a player like CJ choosing them? Trade for Eric Gordon instead?

The CJ trade not only saved Griffin's job, but may have saved the franchise from considering moving in the next couple years. CJ has since embraced the Pelicans more so than any player in their franchise history.

So yeah, I would have absolutely called their bluff if they said the offer they agreed to was their final offer. There was still 3 days until the trade deadline. Eric Gordon would've cost them a 1st. CJ is better than Caris Levert and he got traded for a 1st and a 2nd which ended up being the 31st pick. Griffin just a few months prior had given up a 1st for Devonte Graham. They had a shit ton of draft capital (still do). The Blazers threw Larry Nance into the deal on top of that.

But no, some of you want so badly to believe that Cronin did the best he could and that CJ had such little value that they couldn't even get a backup in the scenario where they made the playoffs over the Lakers?

Cronin himself said that they left value on the table to get CJ and Norm to destinations they wanted to play for and to do right by them. His own freaking words, but no, let's continue making up narratives that Cronin was lucky to get the offer he got. Combine that with Jake L Fischer saying that opposing GM's couldn't believe how little the Blazers got and Quick saying other front offices were laughing at Cronin being two other team's MVP and there is overwhelming logical reasoning behind the Blazers getting ripped off. I'm sorry but being a GM in sports can be ruthless and Cronin got taken advantage of.
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It's like I just said in the post above this one, I'm just hoping with the clout of both now being the actual GM with a four year contract and having the cap situation well under control Cronin will be able to play hardball with these other guys because who gives a fuck if you're a nice guy who is a doormat for all of these fucking sharks that make it to the GM level? If Cronin is a nice guy, which he seems to be, he has to be a nice guy that can call a bluff and if it wasn't a bluff live with the consequences because there is no way that Griffin wasn't bluffing if Cronin even tried to get better contingencies. As you said, so much draft capital (5 fucking first rounders that would have been better actually six if you count the idea of demanding the better of the Bucks or Pels pick in 2025 if it came to that) there's just no way that it was absolutely the best we could get out of NOLA in the way of contingencies... I'm sure they wouldn't give us the pick without the top 4 protection but not one of those six other options was on the table? If that was even the case Cronin just didn't push hard enough which is a weak weak move.
 
I have gone on record multiple times that I would've traded CJ for a can of Olives. The fact that we got Hart and a chance at a lottery pick is good for me. I believe in addition by subtraction. moving CJ allows Simons to Flourish and gets his INSANE contract off the books. People harp to much on what ifs, no one on this site knows anything about what happened behind closed doors during the deadline trades. It's all speculation and made up narratives. CJ didn't work, lets move on.
 
RR7 said:
Cool. Go rant for two hours on you tube about it.
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I don't rant on youtube, I rant here. I'm not even ranting if everyone would just stop bullshitting about the trades made in February. They turned out to be shitty, both of them (CJ/Larry would have just been mediocre if this year's pick would have conveyed but it didn't). If Cronin thought he had no other option that's exactly what Lawrence Frank and David Griffin wanted him to feel and he got played. I'm here hoping that now that it's no longer Cronin's first rodeo, now that he isn't applying for the job and now that he doesn't have ownership breathing down his neck about the repeater tax that he will be much bolder and know when to tell opposing GMs to give him fair value in return or fuck off. If he can't do that and continues to get pushed around, we're in big big trouble.
 
blazerkor said:
I don't rant on youtube, I rant here. I'm not even ranting if everyone would just stop bullshitting about the trades made in February. They turned out to be shitty, both of them (CJ/Larry would have just been mediocre if this year's pick would have conveyed but it didn't). If Cronin thought he had no other option that's exactly what Lawrence Frank and David Griffin wanted him to feel and he got played. I'm here hoping that now that it's no longer Cronin's first rodeo, now that he isn't applying for the job and now that he doesn't have ownership breathing down his neck about the repeater tax that he will be much bolder and know when to tell opposing GMs to give him fair value in return or fuck off. If he can't do that and continues to get pushed around, we're in big big trouble.
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He was being a dick to me not you.
 
Sean.ivity said:
I have gone on record multiple times that I would've traded CJ for a can of Olives. The fact that we got Hart and a chance at a lottery pick is good for me. I believe in addition by subtraction. moving CJ allows Simons to Flourish and gets his INSANE contract off the books. People harp to much on what ifs, no one on this site knows anything about what happened behind closed doors during the deadline trades. It's all speculation and made up narratives. CJ didn't work, lets move on.
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No it's not and this is s basketball forum where stuff like this is discussed.
 
Sean.ivity said:
I have gone on record multiple times that I would've traded CJ for a can of Olives. The fact that we got Hart and a chance at a lottery pick is good for me. I believe in addition by subtraction. moving CJ allows Simons to Flourish and gets his INSANE contract off the books. People harp to much on what ifs, no one on this site knows anything about what happened behind closed doors during the deadline trades. It's all speculation and made up narratives. CJ didn't work, lets move on.
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Dude, it's a cutthroat business and if you start letting other GMs walk all over you, they'll never stop. We gave away a lot more value than we got back and if we use the TPE it won't be as bad but it will still be bad because we gave up four guys that can legitimately start in this league or at least play major rotation minutes and got back one... that's what happened. I'm just hoping that Cronin was working from a place in which he had very little leverage because according to him, word was out that he had to cut salary (which what the fuck is wrong with our organization that they let shit like that get out there), he also said he took less to get CJ and Norm to places they wanted to be (WTF is that about) and he was an interim GM. So the hope I'm holding onto is that he can do much better in a better financial situation and with the clout of a full time GM not an applicant for the job.
 
It doesn’t really matter who the GM is. Everyone knows that Damian Lillard & Chauncey Billups are the ones recruiting and calling the shots.
 
BigGameDamian said:
It doesn’t really matter who the GM is. Everyone knows that Damian Lillard & Chauncey Billups are the ones recruiting and calling the shots.
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If Chaucey's the fucking GM then say it... that would give him the clout to tell the Griffins and Franks of the world to give us a better deal or respectfully go fuck themselves. If Dame is then we've got really really bad problems. Players are too damn close to the situation and don't have enough time devoted to scouting, injury background, finances, etc. to be playing GM. Sure ask your star what he needs but that's as far as it can go. You can also make him feel included by giving him a heads up and explaining why deals are going down but in no way should a player be a shot caller.
 
blazerkor said:
Dude, it's a cutthroat business and if you start letting other GMs walk all over you, they'll never stop. We gave away a lot more value than we got back and if we use the TPE it won't be as bad but it will still be bad because we gave up four guys that can legitimately start in this league or at least play major rotation minutes and got back one... that's what happened. I'm just hoping that Cronin was working from a place in which he had very little leverage because according to him, word was out that he had to cut salary (which what the fuck is wrong with our organization that they let shit like that get out there), he also said he took less to get CJ and Norm to places they wanted to be (WTF is that about) and he was an interim GM. So the hope I'm holding onto is that he can do much better in a better financial situation and with the clout of a full time GM not an applicant for the job.
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Im just saying so many people act like they know what happened in those conversations or what directives upper management gave him. People talk about what we got back in return... CJ didn't work we tried for 8 years... Roco obviously didn't want to be here and played like it, Norm was not as good as advertised bringing their values down. Other GM's know this and they know the Blazers needed to break it up bringing down additional value those players might have. It's not like we traded 3 starters that were lighting the world on fire, We traded 3 starters who all would be coming off the bench for a contender (CJ arguable depending on his role). The team was not built to compete to win and sometimes you need to take a step back to a leap forward and sometimes that means taking some gambles... The trade didn't work out as good as we wanted to with the Pels but would you gamble at the possibility of a lottery pick or trade CJ for a late first rounder? Because he's simply not worth a guaranteed lottery pick. People are overvaluing what these players were worth, IMO. Doesn't help that those rumors about Dame wanting out last off season which also could have effected the values of players on the team.
 
I'm actually kind of enjoying the people going ballistic about Cronin.

why? because in 2015 when I started saying that the Blazers should fire Olshey because he was going to be the prince of mediocrity by going all-in on a Dame/CJ back court while wasting cap-space, I was the lone voice in the wilderness...the only passenger on the fire-olshey train. And I got shit-tons of abuse for that advocacy

after the 2016 spending spree a few more passengers boarded the train but there were still a bunch of olshey-does-no-wrong people pushing back hard on any suggestion that Olshey's ass should be sent packing. By the time that Olshey was finally shit-canned, the fire-olshey train was SRO

so yeah, after more than 6 years of being angry about the Blazer GM, it amuses me that people are going kind of bat-shit about Cronin after a trade deadline & 11 hours as GM.

Now, I've wanted CJ out of town almost as long as I've wanted Olshey gone. And I wanted this latest dumb-ass reboot of olshey-vision dismantled. So maybe the fact that Cronin did the absolutely needed tear-down makes me cut him more slack than I should
 
hoopsjock said:
Let's be real here. When was the last time a player even as close to as good as CJ is actually wanted to be a New Orleans Pelican? All this talk about his contract and him not being an All-Star goes out the window when you consider what having a player of CJ's caliber CHOOSING to want to shoulder the responsibility of being the face of THAT franchise.
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How often is the "face of the franchise" a teams 3rd best player with the least amount of tenure? If CJ ends up being the best player on a championship contending NOP team I'll be eating lots of crow.
 
wizenheimer said:
I'm actually kind of enjoying the people going ballistic about Cronin.

why? because in 2015 when I started saying that the Blazers should fire Olshey because he was going to be the prince of mediocrity by going all-in on a Dame/CJ back court while wasting cap-space, I was the lone voice in the wilderness...the only passenger on the fire-olshey train. And I got shit-tons of abuse for that advocacy

after the 2016 spending spree a few more passengers boarded the train but there were still a bunch of olshey-does-no-wrong people pushing back hard on any suggestion that Olshey's ass should be sent packing. By the time that Olshey was finally shit-canned, the fire-olshey train was SRO

so yeah, after more than 6 years of being angry about the Blazer GM, it amuses me that people are going kind of bat-shit about Cronin after a trade deadline & 11 hours as GM.

Now, I've wanted CJ out of town almost as long as I've wanted Olshey gone. And I wanted this latest dumb-ass reboot of olshey-vision dismantled. So maybe the fact that Cronin did the absolutely needed tear-down makes me cut him more slack than I should
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So basically what you're saying is that you were a lot like the people calling for Cronin's head way earlier than most? :pumpitup:
 
Tince said:
So basically what you're saying is that you were a lot like the people calling for Cronin's head way earlier than most? :pumpitup:
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he was hired in 2012....I didn't really start my anti-olshey crusade till 3 years later. The Cronin hate started 3 months ago
 
Sean.ivity said:
Im just saying so many people act like they know what happened in those conversations or what directives upper management gave him. People talk about what we got back in return... CJ didn't work we tried for 8 years... Roco obviously didn't want to be here and played like it, Norm was not as good as advertised bringing their values down. Other GM's know this and they know the Blazers needed to break it up bringing down additional value those players might have. It's not like we traded 3 starters that were lighting the world on fire, We traded 3 starters who all would be coming off the bench for a contender (CJ arguable depending on his role). The team was not built to compete to win and sometimes you need to take a step back to a leap forward and sometimes that means taking some gambles... The trade didn't work out as good as we wanted to with the Pels but would you gamble at the possibility of a lottery pick or trade CJ for a late first rounder? Because he's simply not worth a guaranteed lottery pick. People are overvaluing what these players were worth, IMO. Doesn't help that those rumors about Dame wanting out last off season which also could have effected the values of players on the team.
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I'm with you...

I wasn't thrilled with the CJ trade nor would I claim it is unequivocally the best deal we could've got because I have zero clue what was on the table. The flip side continues to be that a lot of people act as if they know NOP was willing to give up the better of the LAL or NOP, or we could've got a better young player, or the Clippers were willing to give us a 1st round pick. I have seen no concrete evidence of this being true.

When people were pissing and moaning that we had this amazingly deep and talented roster, I expressed the opinion that people we really over-valuing the talents of guys like Aminu, Harkless, Hood, Whiteside, Kanter, Turner, Meyers, Crabbe, Plumbee, etc. only to find out that those guys could never duplicate the amount of success they had in Portland after leaving. The fact of the matter is <insert whoever you want> got a lot out of the marginal talent Olshey put around Dame. Even CJ showed to have below average playoff production compared to what he did in Portland.
 
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