Kevin Love AGAIN (with poll) (2 Viewers)

[JoshuaHall]

How is he any different from any other player who made the jump straight from high school? At this point, even saying he is the next Travis Outlaw is just optimistic speculation.

He isn’t, except he sat out a year and didn’t play or receiving coaching while the others got to, yknow, join NBA teams.

Did Outlaw drop 30 as a rookie straight outta HS?

 

[JoshuaHall]

It’s not really. Plenty of guys came straight from high school before the 1 and done rule, and plenty busted.

If the one and done rule were to be abolished you would see probably more of the same.

I wouldn’t get too attached to the hype, you can find someone willing to say anything.

Except they didn’t have to sit out a year with no coaching or playing games.

And how many of them dropped 30?

 

[B-Roy]

Except they didn’t have to sit out a year with no coaching or playing games.

And how many of them dropped 30?

I don’t understand how the first point makes him more likely to succeed.

and I put almost no stock in him dropping 30 in a meaningless game while playing 48 minutes. Chalk it up to the end of season stat boost for scrubs that get a chance to play. If you do, fine, but I kind of roll my eyes.

 

[Blazers Roy]

yuck!
Kevin Love as a Blazer is disgusting.

I know he was carried to a championship, but i dont think the guy is a winner and his body is cooked.

 

[JoshuaHall]

And plenty of them didn’t bust... by my count...

Kwame Brown
Eddy Curry
Sebastian Telfair
Leon Smith
Korleone Young

Those are the busts, if you factor in draft position.

 

[JoshuaHall]

I don’t understand how the first point makes him more likely to succeed.

and I put almost no stock in him dropping 30 in a meaningless game while playing 48 minutes. Chalk it up to the end of season stat boost for scrubs that get a chance to play. If you do, fine, but I kind of roll my eyes.

Because if he can DROP 30 on NBA players having NO advanced b-ball experience or coaching — that means he has a brighter future WITH that coaching, right? At least that’s how I see it.

Kinda like a guy who starts playing baseball at 17 and throws 95 with shit mechanics.

If you’re a baseball scout, you’d assume, with proper coaching, weight room, more experience ... you could probably make him a little better, right? Since he’s never been coached before — at an elite level.

Consider us different than. Find me another rookie who dropped 30 — under the same circumstances I gave above.

It’s not like we are the only team with a young rookie who had a chance to play scrubs.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Except they didn’t have to sit out a year with no coaching or playing games.

And how many of them dropped 30?

Here is the list of teenage rookies to score 30 in a game. Uncle Cliffy is right at the top, incidentally.

http://bkref.com/tiny/FZxML

 

[JoshuaHall]

Also, I’ll admit part of it is the eye test. Dude can ball. Doesn’t look off balance, too slow, not athletic enough, etc.

It’s not like he was getting his shit beat in

 

[B-Roy]

Because if he can DROP 30 on NBA players having NO advanced b-ball experience or coaching — that means he has a brighter future WITH that coaching, right? At least that’s how I see it.

Kinda like a guy who starts playing baseball at 17 and throws 95 with shit mechanics.

If you’re a baseball scout, you’d assume, with proper coaching, weight room, more experience ... you could probably make him a little better, right? Since he’s never been coached before — at an elite level.

Consider us different than. Find me another rookie who dropped 30 — under the same circumstances I gave above.

It’s not like we are the only team with a young rookie who had a chance to play scrubs.

I really just put no stock in that 30 point game....at all. But okay, I understand.

 

[JoshuaHall]

Here is the list of teenage rookies to score 30 in a game. Uncle Cliffy is right at the top, incidentally.

http://bkref.com/tiny/FZxML

And if you narrow it down to didn’t play college or overseas...

You get Jr Smith and LeBron James

And the rest of the company in that list isn’t too bad.

But if it’s so easy to drop 30+ as a rookie against scrubs, why aren’t more doing it??

 

[JoshuaHall]

I really just put no stock in that 30 point game....at all. But okay, I understand.

Like I said, consider us different. That is fine. I do because it doesn’t happen often. You could very well be right and he happened to play bonkers on the perfect night at the perfect time.

Like I said — doesn’t mean he is an all star or anything — I’m just not trading him away for nothing.

I consider KLOVE nothing. Dude is not good imo.

Obviously not nothing... but not good enough. Y’all know what I mean.

 

[B-Roy]

And if you narrow it down to didn’t play college or overseas...

You get Jr Smith and LeBron James

And the rest of the company in that list isn’t too bad.

But if it’s so easy to drop 30+ as a rookie against scrubs, why aren’t more doing it??

Because not every rookie is given 48 minutes to do whatever they want.

 

[BBert]

I don't think it would be one of Simons/Collins, it would either be just Collins or both. I think this forum rates Simons way better than anyone else in the league would. He's really not proven anything. Yes he's young, but that one game against a team of scrubs that weren't playing for anything means basically nothing. People here act like it cements him as a future star.

If the Blazers value Simons more than the rest of the league does (and I'd bet they do), that is the exact reason why you don't trade him.

 

[wizenheimer]

No. I don’t know where you get that idea — in fact — I related the scenario to another absurdly young player in Jermaine O’Neal.

But, here is my opinion:

Simons has a lot more potential than *most* for a couple reasons.

A) Age.

B) Height, athleticism, length.

Age...ok. athleticism, ok again

but at the pre-draft camp, his height, w/o shoes, was 6' 2.25'' & his wingspan was 6' 9.25'. For a comparison, Dame was 6'1.75" with a wingspan of 6'7.75. In other words, Simons was only a half inch taller than Dame, and only had a 1.5" advantage in wingspan. There's not a lot of "potential" in those measurements of height and length. Simons was the same height as CJ. For chrissakes, Donovan Mitchell was a full inch shorter than Simons but had a 6'10" wingspan, 3/4 of an inch more than Simons

Maybe Simons can be more of a PG/facilitator than CJ is but that's not saying much.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here is the list of teenage rookies to score 30 in a game. Uncle Cliffy is right at the top, incidentally.

http://bkref.com/tiny/FZxML

Wrong Cliff Robinson. This one, not this one.

Also: DaJuan Wagner - there's a name I'd forgotten.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Age...ok. athleticism, ok again

but at the pre-draft camp, his height, w/o shoes, was 6' 2.25'' & his wingspan was 6' 9.25'. For a comparison, Dame was 6'1.75" with a wingspan of 6'7.75. In other words, Simons was only a half inch taller than Dame, and only had a 1.5" advantage in wingspan. There's not a lot of "potential" in those measurements of height and length. Simons was the same height as CJ. For chrissakes, Donovan Mitchell was a full inch shorter than Simons but had a 6'10" wingspan, 3/4 of an inch more than Simons

Maybe Simons can be more of a PG/facilitator than CJ is but that's not saying much.

Simons also could still be growing. Recall the reports that the previously 6'5" Ntilikina is now 6'7". No guarantee that Simons' measurements at 18yo will be the same as when he is 23.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Wrong Cliff Robinson. This one, not this one.

Also: DaJuan Wagner - there's a name I'd forgotten.

Mea culpa. I just saw the name and assumed. Thank you for the clarification

 

[wizenheimer]

Simons also could still be growing. Recall the reports that the previously 6'5" Ntilikina is now 6'7". No guarantee that Simons' measurements at 18yo will be the same as when he is 23.

that's possible, sure

but until we get some actual indication that's happening, listing height and length as components of "potential" seems like a real stretch for a guard under 6'3, especially if he's mostly a SG.

 

[GDiama]

Yeah, it wouldn’t be great because they both received coaching and played either overseas or in college.

We essentially took a flier on a HS kid. Kinda like Luis Montero.

It’s not overvaluing or undervaluing. It’s we don’t know what the fuck we have — and at his age and LACK of experience — has showed more than either of those players.

Have either of them dropped 30 in a game?

They’ve both received more coaching AND experience.

They are more known quantities.

Simons isn’t. And in his little time playing — has accomplished things those players have not — as far as my knowledge.

And is much younger.

They are one just one year older, that is a lot? I also don't get Simons accomplishments. Being a starter for a playoff team i guess is a bigger accomplishment than dropping 37 in a meaningless game since your team felt they can only play you good minutes once in the entire season aiming to lose.

Maybe if Diallo had played 48 mins instead of 22 in the game he scored 18 pts it would be different. Just stating one game and disregarding an entire season cannot make Simons seem better.

 

[BonesJones]

that's possible, sure

but until we get some actual indication that's happening, listing height and length as components of "potential" seems like a real stretch for a guard under 6'3, especially if he's mostly a SG.

Hes not under 6'3

 

[PtldPlatypus]

that's possible, sure

but until we get some actual indication that's happening, listing height and length as components of "potential" seems like a real stretch for a guard under 6'3, especially if he's mostly a SG.

When pre-draft height/wingspan measurements are listed as definitive limitations on potential, it is reasonable to mention the possibility for growth as possible mitigators of that limitation.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I'd rather have Evan Turner than Kevin Love. Love is massively overpaid for 3 years. He has negative value. He makes no sense with a DameCJ defense team.

It would be as bad as doing the Turner Crabbe Meyers Harkless contracts all over again.

I hope we trade Turner for a different vet on an expiring deal.

 

[GDiama]

I'd rather have Evan Turner than Kevin Love. Love is massively overpaid for 3 years. He has negative value. He makes no sense with a DameCJ defense team.

It would be as bad as doing the Turner Crabbe Meyers Harkless contracts all over again.

I hope we trade Turner for a different vet on an expiring deal.

If D is the problem, then at the same time we can try to trade CJ for a better wing defender.

Like Harkless+Turner+25+2023 2nd for Love
and then
CJ for Jrue

So the Pelicans will get a better shooter that fits next to Zion. They will also get one year less because CJ expires before Jrue.

I think our starting 5 would be way more solid that way, problem is an ambulance should always be by our side.

 

[wizenheimer]

When pre-draft height/wingspan measurements are listed as definitive limitations on potential, it is reasonable to mention the possibility for growth as possible mitigators of that limitation.

where exactly were his pre-draft measurements listed as "definitive limitations on potential"? the opposite happened here

somebody listed his height as a positive factor in potential; I pointed out that he was the same height as CJ in pre-draft measurements, and CJ's height has never really been a positive. It certainly doesn't define his overall game, but it has limited it...that's not a positive

and sure, it's all picking nits

Hes not under 6'3

he was a year ago and no, I don't consider 'with shoes' since over the years I've seen anywhere from 0.5" to 2.5" being added to a height with shoes

 

[PtldPlatypus]

where exactly were his pre-draft measurements listed as "definitive limitations on potential"? the opposite happened here

somebody listed his height as a positive factor in potential; I pointed out that he was the same height as CJ in pre-draft measurements, and CJ's height has never really been a positive. It certainly doesn't define his overall game, but it has limited it...that's not a positive

Seems silly to me to say that there's not much "potential" indicated by an 18yo's pre-draft measurements lining up favorably with those of all-star/caliber players who were 4 years older when they went through the same process...but that's just my perspective. YMMV.

 

[CupWizier]

where exactly were his pre-draft measurements listed as "definitive limitations on potential"? the opposite happened here

somebody listed his height as a positive factor in potential; I pointed out that he was the same height as CJ in pre-draft measurements, and CJ's height has never really been a positive. It certainly doesn't define his overall game, but it has limited it...that's not a positive

and sure, it's all picking nits



he was a year ago and no, I don't consider 'with shoes' since over the years I've seen anywhere from 0.5" to 2.5" being added to a height with shoes

I would love to have another player with McCollums "limitations".

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Great, now I need to reevaluate my position.

(J/k @CupWizier. Just flipping you crap cause I know you can take it.)

 

[CupWizier]

Great, now I need to reevaluate my position.

(J/k @CupWizier. Just flipping you crap cause I know you can take it.)

Follow me son and I will lead you to greatness.

 

[wizenheimer]

Seems silly to me to say that there's not much "potential" indicated by an 18yo's pre-draft measurements lining up favorably with those of all-star/caliber players who were 4 years older when they went through the same process...but that's just my perspective. YMMV.

ok? but they also "line up" with Elliot Williams, Jordan Crawford, Travis Leslie, ETwaun Moore, Marcus Denmon, Dion Waiters, Brandon Paul, Markel Brown, Kendall Williams, Elfrid Payton, Marcus Thornton, & Wade Baldwin

so then, going by pre-draft heights & wingspan, his potential can fall somewhere between Nolan Smith & Stephen Curry. You're right, there is some silliness going on here and we're all contributing

 

[Reep]

If D is the problem, then at the same time we can try to trade CJ for a better wing defender.

Like Harkless+Turner+25+2023 2nd for Love
and then
CJ for Jrue

So the Pelicans will get a better shooter that fits next to Zion. They will also get one year less because CJ expires before Jrue.

I think our starting 5 would be way more solid that way, problem is an ambulance should always be by our side.

Some seem to be comparing Love's defense (bad) to CJs (bad). The stats don't reflect this. I know Def Rat and Def WS are not perfect, but Love is way ahead of CJ in every year, except last year on a bad Cavs team. I would much rather take on Love and get a better defender at the 2.