Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors

[Predator]

I am going to thoroughly enjoy bumping this when Shae is a star. Eason is a role player and Smith has thus far been a bust.

Hope you're right.

Summer league…… summer league……….. summer……. League.

Man it’s really too bad we don’t have actual NBA stats to look at from those two players. If only…..

Uh yeah, the stats pretty much say what I've been telling you, but ok. Their players might not be as good offensively (shooting), but they play defense and rebound.

They were both shit teams... who cares about win shares? That's the one stat you're going to snipe?

Smith couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. In the 30-39 minute per game bracket, Sharpe outplayed Smith pretty handily.

Smith was just as bad defensively as Sharpe, but horrible offensively. I already posted those stats.

View attachment 57047

Overall, Sharpe was a MUCH more efficient scorer. Smith was a massive disappointment last season. He was supposed to be NBA ready.

Lol if you really think Sharpe is even close to Jabari Smith defensively

Funny how the attachment you posted showed Sharpe with the least amount of "green boxes" (areas he's best in) compared to the others.

And, for the 1000th time,

I said Jabari and Shaedon are a "wash". I'd probably take Shaedon over Jabari as I'm not a Jabari fan and I think Shaedon has a higher ceiling. I think a vast majority of GMs would probably lean Jabari. As I mentioned previously, I would bet a vast majority of GMs would think they could get Jabari's shooting percentages much closer to what he showed he could achieve. I would assume they'd find this year to be an anomaly. The guy went from elite shooter to trash, which is pretty rare.

And yes, Summer league doesn't matter, but they're both second-year players and one DOMINATED the summer league and the other looked like he had no interest in playing.


Anyhow, done with this conversation. Completely off-topic for this thread.

 

[Natebishop3]

Lol if you really think Sharpe is even close to Jabari Smith defensively

I mean....

Smith


Sharpe


Big whoop... they both suck at defense. But Smith wasn't SUPPOSED to suck. Sharpe hadn't played ball in over a year when he joined our team. He was always going to be a project on defense. His natural gifts are on offense. I'm still hopeful that he'll improve on defense.

Funny how the attachment you posted showed Sharpe with the least amount of "green boxes" (areas he's best in) compared to the others.

Yeah.... except they're the most important ones.
FG%
3P%
eFG%

He kicks their asses in all three of those metrics.

And, for the 1000th time,

I said Jabari and Shaedon are a "wash". I'd probably take Shaedon over Jabari as I'm not a Jabari fan and I think Shaedon has a higher ceiling. I think a vast majority of GMs would probably lean Jabari. As I mentioned previously, I would bet a vast majority of GMs would think they could get Jabari's shooting percentages much closer to what he showed he could achieve. I would assume they'd find this year to be an anomaly. The guy went from elite shooter to trash, which is pretty rare.

And yes, Summer league doesn't matter, but they're both second-year players and one DOMINATED the summer league and the other looked like he had no interest in playing.


Anyhow, done with this conversation. Completely off-topic for this thread.

I would love to add Eason and Smith, but Eason projects out as a starter and Smith is.... a question right now. He had a good summer league, which is encouraging, but he looked REALLY bad last year. I would definitely trade Simons for those guys, but not Sharpe. Did Smith have a stretch as good as Sharpe's last year?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I just didn’t see it with Jovic. He’s a stretch four who doesn’t play defense.

What screams Portland TrailBlazers more than that?

 

[Natebishop3]

What screams Portland TrailBlazers more than that?

We'd love him if he was 6'3.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Outside of the picks, I might try to send the Miami players to another team more interested in Jovic and Jaquez. I think Jovic has more upside but Jacquez is a better fit next to our all offense guys. Caleb Martin should net a 1st as well but doubt Cronin gets him too.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

I think Minny would want some picks. That's pretty bad value on KAT. They had supposedly reached out to us about the #3, so it would be a pretty massive step down if they accepted Herro and Martin. Of course, their GM is horrible so maybe they do it?

I want that 2024 pick from Miami though, as well. They need to give OKC the 2026 and give us 2024/2028/2030.

I'd rather have the 26 pick over the 24 pick from Miami. It's going to be a much better draft.

Also - I wouldn't deal with OKC. Give 3 second rounders to NYK to get the worst 1 rounder in '25 (out of the 3 picks they have - most likely Milwaukee's). Give that one to Miami and get all 4 firsts from Miami (24, 26, 28, & 30).

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd rather have the 26 pick over the 24 pick from Miami. It's going to be a much better draft.

Also - I wouldn't deal with OKC. Give 3 second rounders to NYK to get the worst 1 rounder in '25 (out of the 3 picks they have - most likely Milwaukee's). Give that one to Miami and get all 4 firsts from Miami (24, 26, 28, & 30).

OKC won't do that. They own 2025 and the only way to get them to move off 2025 is to give them 2026 so we can have 2024.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

… I want that 2024 pick from Miami though, as well. They need to give OKC the 2026 and give us 2024/2028/2030.

Since the value of Miami picks is historically less than craptastic franchises, the basic return of picks is unconditional 2024, 2028, 2030. Pick swaps in 2027 and 2029 makes it look better; if nothing else in the short-term, the pick swaps can be moved.

Both Jovic and Jaquez is basic. The return on Herro is either an unconditional pick or a strong, young, big player who fits — like Claxton in Brooklyn while sending Nurkic into their TPE.

Lillard + Nurkic = Claxton + Jovic + Jaquez + any short-term filler + 3 1st rounders and 2 1st pick swaps. Sacrifice the pick swaps to get a guy like Claxton? Maybe. Otherwise, there’s NO trade with Miami. If it reaches that point where Miami won’t pay up and the season approaches, inform Lillard — not his agent — that Portland has been given what Miami says is their best offer, and there is no chance of that happening. 48 hours later, the media gets no details — just the same message. Otherwise, “let them eat static.”

 

[Graduate32]

I just didn’t see it with Jovic. He’s a stretch four who doesn’t play defense.

Jovic's future reminds me of a better playmaking, but worse rebounding Ryan Anderson. I think as a part of a rotation he could be a useful player in the 5th-9th-man type of role. There will be instances in which he will likely be played off the floor and likely more instances in which his positive offensive contributions outweigh his defensive limitations.

He is certainly not the ideal centerpiece for a Dame deal, but I'd want him included if Miami is where this thing ends.

 

[tykendo]

I don't want Dame to be traded , but I do think the Blazers getting Frank Zappa would be pretty cool though.

 

[Natebishop3]

Jovic's future reminds me of a better playmaking, but worse rebounding Ryan Anderson. I think as a part of a rotation he could be a useful player in the 5th-9th-man type of role. There will be instances in which he will likely be played off the floor and likely more instances in which his positive offensive contributions outweigh his defensive limitations.

He is certainly not the ideal centerpiece for a Dame deal, but I'd want him included if Miami is where this thing ends.

Yup. That's exactly who I was thinking of as well. And that's fine.... I don't mind having a guy like that, but he's certainly not the centerpiece of a trade for Dame.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

OKC won't do that. They own 2025 and the only way to get them to move off 2025 is to give them 2026 so we can have 2024.

Irrelevant...

As I said - "I wouldn't deal with OKC."
Miami doesn't have to even talk to OKC to unlock the 24 and 26 picks. Get a late pick in '25 from Brooklyn, Knicks, or Utah.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Scoot - Sharpe
Simons - Jaquez
Thybulle - Murray - Rupert
Grant - Walker
KAT - Jovic - ButlerJr

I question if KAT makes sense here, he's 27 and the Blazers might be a very long ways from contending. But were still getting two unprotected picks/Jovic/Jaquez... can also get a 2029 swap. Its not a whole lot less than if we get junk contracts back from a 3rd team so maybe I'd be ok considering it.

Just seems like KAT would make more sense to a different team that wants to win now. But if he's as available as many have rumored it could make sense to get him and the Wolves in on a Dame trade.

There's a lot of rumors the Blazers really want to push to make the playoffs now, and not take only picks or projects back in a Dame trade. If so I could see them going for KAT.

I think MN might want a FRP there also. Miami would need to dig up another one.

 

[Idog1976]

Just so we're clear... you're comparing:

Eason 6'8"
Smith 6'11"
Amen 6'7"

to

Simons 6'3"
Sharpe 6'5"
Scoot 6'2"

So you think we should have drafted Amen over Scoot? Also, do you think Smith is better than Sharpe? We all know who's taller.

 

[Natebishop3]

Irrelevant...

As I said - "I wouldn't deal with OKC."
Miami doesn't have to even talk to OKC to unlock the 24 and 26 picks. Get a late pick in '25 from Brooklyn, Knicks, or Utah.

You can't unlock picks without dealing with OKC. They own the protected 2025 pick from Miami. If the pick is top 14 protected, so most likely the pick is going to OKC. You can't trade 2024 or 2026 until that pick is resolved.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

You can't unlock picks without dealing with OKC. They own the protected 2025 pick from Miami. If the pick is top 14 protected, so most likely the pick is going to OKC. You can't trade 2024 or 2026 until that pick is resolved.

You can unlock them.
The only requirement is that Miami has a pick in '25. It does NOT have to be their own. This is why pick swaps are legal.

As you said, OKC owns the '25 Miami pick which is lotto protected. If protected it rolls over to the 26 pick.

If Miami gets a late 1st in '25 (say Milwaukee's), then they can trade '24, '28, & '30 without any conditions. They could also do swaps in '27 and '29 without condition.

The only tricky part is the '26 pick would have to be conditional (since there is a chance that OKC gets it). However the condition can be "If the Miami '25 pick conveys to OKC, the Portland gets '26. If the Miami '26 pick does not convey, then Portland gets the higher pick between Miami '25 and Milwaukee's '25". In this scenario, if Portland got Miami's 25 - it would be guaranteed to be in the lottery.

Since Miami would still be selecting a player in the first round in 25 - the conditions of the Steipen Rule are met.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I'd rather have the 26 pick over the 24 pick from Miami. It's going to be a much better draft.

Also - I wouldn't deal with OKC. Give 3 second rounders to NYK to get the worst 1 rounder in '25 (out of the 3 picks they have - most likely Milwaukee's). Give that one to Miami and get all 4 firsts from Miami (24, 26, 28, & 30).

That works unless the Heat are in the lottery in 2025... in that case the Heat keep their 2025 pick and OKC gets it in 2026. So yeah I think we could conditionally acquire 2026 but it wouldn't for sure convey.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Irrelevant...

As I said - "I wouldn't deal with OKC."
Miami doesn't have to even talk to OKC to unlock the 24 and 26 picks. Get a late pick in '25 from Brooklyn, Knicks, or Utah.

I'd say that should be a plan to negotiate, one possibility is getting a weak 2025 from as you say one of those teams with multiple picks. But for due diligence Miami/PDX should also inquire with OKC as they could potentially offer a better way to unlock the pick. If OKC doesn't, then yes just deal with Brooklyn/NY/Utah/SAS/etc.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You can't unlock picks without dealing with OKC. They own the protected 2025 pick from Miami. If the pick is top 14 protected, so most likely the pick is going to OKC. You can't trade 2024 or 2026 until that pick is resolved.

Incorrect, Miami can unlock their pick without OKC. They just need to have a 1st round pick in one of two consecutive years. It doesn't have to be their own first round pick in any year.

To fully unlock it they need a pick in 2025 or if they miss the 2025 playoffs in 2026. It's probably a bit more complicated to get a pick from a 3rd team that exactly matches those conditions to convey, but certainly not impossible. Seems unlikely they miss the 2025 playoffs, so perhaps the Blazers would be fine with the pick only being "conditionally" unlocked.

 

[Natebishop3]

Incorrect, Miami can unlock their pick without OKC. They just need to have a 1st round pick in one of two consecutive years. It doesn't have to be their own first round pick in any year.

To fully unlock it they need a pick in 2025 or if they miss the 2025 playoffs in 2026. It's probably a bit more complicated to get a pick from a 3rd team that exactly matches those conditions to convey, but certainly not impossible. Seems unlikely they miss the 2025 playoffs, so perhaps the Blazers would be fine with the pick only being "conditionally" unlocked.

Problem with that is I imagine we'd rather they guarantee the 2026 pick so they can free up 2024 because if Miami is bringing back a pick from another team, we're going to want that pick as well

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You can unlock them.
The only requirement is that Miami has a pick in '25. It does NOT have to be their own. This is why pick swaps are legal.

As you said, OKC owns the '25 Miami pick which is lotto protected. If protected it rolls over to the 26 pick.

If Miami gets a late 1st in '25 (say Milwaukee's), then they can trade '24, '28, & '30 without any conditions. They could also do swaps in '27 and '29 without condition.

The only tricky part is the '26 pick would have to be conditional (since there is a chance that OKC gets it). However the condition can be "If the Miami '25 pick conveys to OKC, the Portland gets '26. If the Miami '26 pick does not convey, then Portland gets the higher pick between Miami '25 and Milwaukee's '25". In this scenario, if Portland got Miami's 25 - it would be guaranteed to be in the lottery.

Since Miami would still be selecting a player in the first round in 25 - the conditions of the Steipen Rule are met.

Ahhh thats a good way to structure the conditional aspect.... yeah if Miami keeps their 2025 pick then its in the lottery so have a way that it goes to the Blazers instead.

 

[Natebishop3]

You can unlock them.
The only requirement is that Miami has a pick in '25. It does NOT have to be their own. This is why pick swaps are legal.

As you said, OKC owns the '25 Miami pick which is lotto protected. If protected it rolls over to the 26 pick.

If Miami gets a late 1st in '25 (say Milwaukee's), then they can trade '24, '28, & '30 without any conditions. They could also do swaps in '27 and '29 without condition.

The only tricky part is the '26 pick would have to be conditional (since there is a chance that OKC gets it). However the condition can be "If the Miami '25 pick conveys to OKC, the Portland gets '26. If the Miami '26 pick does not convey, then Portland gets the higher pick between Miami '25 and Milwaukee's '25". In this scenario, if Portland got Miami's 25 - it would be guaranteed to be in the lottery.

Since Miami would still be selecting a player in the first round in 25 - the conditions of the Steipen Rule are met.

Well written out. Thanks.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

That works unless the Heat are in the lottery in 2025... in that case the Heat keep their 2025 pick and OKC gets it in 2026. So yeah I think we could conditionally acquire 2026 but it wouldn't for sure convey.

You can unlock them.
The only tricky part is the '26 pick would have to be conditional (since there is a chance that OKC gets it). However the condition can be "If the Miami '25 pick conveys to OKC, the Portland gets '26. If the Miami '26 pick does not convey, then Portland gets the higher pick between Miami '25 and Milwaukee's '25". In this scenario, if Portland got Miami's 25 - it would be guaranteed to be in the lottery.

 

[Predator]

I mean....

Smith
View attachment 57052

Sharpe
View attachment 57053

Big whoop... they both suck at defense. But Smith wasn't SUPPOSED to suck. Sharpe hadn't played ball in over a year when he joined our team. He was always going to be a project on defense. His natural gifts are on offense. I'm still hopeful that he'll improve on defense.



Yeah.... except they're the most important ones.
FG%
3P%
eFG%

He kicks their asses in all three of those metrics.



I would love to add Eason and Smith, but Eason projects out as a starter and Smith is.... a question right now. He had a good summer league, which is encouraging, but he looked REALLY bad last year. I would definitely trade Simons for those guys, but not Sharpe. Did Smith have a stretch as good as Sharpe's last year?

Yeah, I forgot Shaedon was guarding centers, power forwards, small forwards, SGs and PGs and frequently guarded the opposing best player.

Here ya go: https://theathletic.com/4687340/2023/07/20/jabari-smith-jr-rockets-nba-defense/?amp=1

Lol i guess you'd rather have Duncan Robinson or Luke Kennard than Jimmy Butler because they have higher FG%, 3pt% and efg%? Is that right? Or does the fact that they absolutely suck on defense change your opinion on that? Jimmy is better practically everywhere else but the "most important areas" after all.

And I've got no idea if Jabari had a stretch as good as Shaedon's. I didn't watch the Rockets that often. And we clearly differ in measuring Jabari's impact defensively. Shaedon is undoubtedly a better scorer. That's like comparing Jaren Jackson Jr. or Evan Mobley to Valenciunas or Vucevic.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, I forgot Shaedon was guarding centers, power forwards, small forwards, SGs and PGs and frequently guarded the opposing best player.

Here ya go: https://theathletic.com/4687340/2023/07/20/jabari-smith-jr-rockets-nba-defense/?amp=1

Lol i guess you'd rather have Duncan Robinson or Luke Kennard than Jimmy Butler because they have higher FG%, 3pt% and efg%? Is that right? Or does the fact that they absolutely suck on defense change your opinion on that? Jimmy is better practically everywhere else but the "most important areas" after all.

And I've got no idea if Jabari had a stretch as good as Shaedon's. I didn't watch the Rockets that often. And we clearly differ in measuring Jabari's impact defensively. Shaedon is undoubtedly a better scorer. That's like comparing Jaren Jackson Jr. or Evan Mobley to Valenciunas or Vucevic.

Well, first of all, Duncan Robinson sucks. He's not better than Jimmy on any metric. Like.... he's REALLY bad.



Kennard is a really good three point shooter. I don't think he's good at literally anything else. He's a specialist. Do you think Shaedon is a specialist?

Jabari got torched dude. Okay, they put him on the other team's best player..... and he wasn't very good at it.

"For example, per Cleaning the Glass, the Rockets gave up nearly four more points with Smith on the floor versus when he was on the bench. That would slot him in the bottom quartile of defenders from last season — 16th percentile to be exact. Now, if Houston as a whole was an elite or even an average defensive unit, Smith’s impact would stick out. But given the Rockets were ineffective on that end of the floor as a unit, there’s more to be explored beyond the surface level."

So basically..... he sucked at defense.... but if Houston was amazing at defense, he would be better? That's some amazing analysis right there.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Natebishop3]

 

[Driew]

Do we even have five roster spots for that?

 

[Natebishop3]

Do we even have five roster spots for that?

There’s no chance in hell that we take back Robinson.

 

[Samuel]

There’s no chance in hell that we take back Robinson.

Anyone want to bet Robinson tops out as a bench rotation player? Let’s do it.