Point guard comparison

[chzbrgr]

Name 10 better PGs. I'd still put Dame 4-6 depending on the day.

Well it depends on who you count really, for example, I think of Giannis as a pg even if he isnt listed as such (he is the primary ball handler like harden so Im going to count him) but here is ten I think could be argued are better than dame:

Harden
Westbrick
Curry
CP3
Giannis
Irving
Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Walker


Dame probably could be ranked anywhere in the highlighted range including the bottom

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How about make 2 or 3 in a row from 23 feet first?

Being hot from 23 feet doesn't mean he's hot from 30ft.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Well it depends on who you count really, for example, I think of Giannis as a pg even if he isnt listed as such (he is the primary ball handler like harden so Im going to count him) but here is ten I think could be argued are better than dame:

Harden
Westbrick
Curry
CP3
Giannis
Irving
Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Walker


Dame probably could be ranked anywhere in the highlighted range including the bottom

Editing my posts above to include Kyrie. Thank you.

 

[illmatic99]

Just to follow up, here's the advanced stats comparison with Dame vs all 10 of the above noted PG's (Dame listed in both tables):

View attachment 11655View attachment 11654

Dame's BPM is the lowest of the bunch. So, yeah, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that he is not a top 10 PG in the NBA this season.

George Hill is an anomaly given the rest of his mediocre career. And his sample size this year has been minimal in comparison.

Harden as a PG is still a weird concept for me. Ya he does PG stuff, but he's a SG height, and clearly still plays with a PG in Beverley. Similar to Giannis.

Dame's 3pt % is the only thing holding him back. I don't consider Thomas/Kemba/Steph as being all that much better on D individually. Put rim protectors and defensive stoppers next to Dame and his defense doesn't look nearly as bad. We have direct evidence of this just two years ago when Dame was flanked by Wes/Nic/Rolo.

 

[Minstrel]

Harden as a PG is still a weird concept for me. Ya he does PG stuff, but he's a SG height, and clearly still plays with a PG in Beverley. Similar to Giannis.

Both guys are playing the point guard role. Harden's not playing "with a point guard," he's playing with a smaller, defense-oriented guard who can check point guards on defense. Harden is definitely the point guard on that team right now and they cross-match defensively.

 

[chzbrgr]

George Hill is an anomaly given the rest of his mediocre career. And his sample size this year has been minimal in comparison.

Harden as a PG is still a weird concept for me. Ya he does PG stuff, but he's a SG height, and clearly still plays with a PG in Beverley. Similar to Giannis.

Dame's 3pt % is the only thing holding him back. I don't consider Thomas/Kemba/Steph as being all that much better on D individually. Put rim protectors and defensive stoppers next to Dame and his defense doesn't look nearly as bad. We have direct evidence of this just two years ago when Dame was flanked by Wes/Nic/Rolo.

While I agree, at this point in the season he's playing like a rich mans Monte Ellis with a green light the size of texas. Dame is a max player like all the guys on the list I just dont think he's a superstar like we all hoped he would be this year. He started the year looking like the guy that was necessary to win a chip during the next few years, but that fizzled out quickly along with any hope of a playoff run.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

George Hill is an anomaly given the rest of his mediocre career. And his sample size this year has been minimal in comparison.

He's still playing this year better than Dame. If it comes down to one of the two for the final all star spot in the west, Hill deserves it over Dame so far.

Harden as a PG is still a weird concept for me. Ya he does PG stuff, but he's a SG height, and clearly still plays with a PG in Beverley. Similar to Giannis.

Harden is unquestionably running the point in Houston. Just because he's taller than his backcourt-mate doesn't mean he's not the PG. Magic was no less a PG just because he played with Byron Scott. Same with Penny Hardaway and Dennis Scott.

Dame's 3pt % is the only thing holding him back. I don't consider Thomas/Kemba/Steph as being all that much better on D individually. Put rim protectors and defensive stoppers next to Dame and his defense doesn't look nearly as bad. We have direct evidence of this just two years ago when Dame was flanked by Wes/Nic/Rolo.

Point is, as absurd as it initially seems, and despite the justifications and speculations, it's still not an unreasonable question to ask if Dame is actually a top 10 PG this year. The numbers--and the team record--support the other guys.

 

[chzbrgr]

Point is, as absurd as it initially seems, and despite the justifications and speculations, it's still not an unreasonable question to ask if Dame is actually a top 10 PG this year. The numbers--and the team record--support the other guys.

It's a sad thing right?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Boy, the Jazz sure cleaned up with that George Hill trade, didn't they? AND he's a great defender.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Of course, the important question is is Dame the best PG FOR THE BLAZERS. And sadly, given CJ as SG, he's not. George Hill, for example, would be considerably better (at least this year), especially given his insane wingspan and ability to cover SGs. If we had someone like Klay Thompson or Tony Allen as our SG, then it'd be a different matter. (But then Isaiah Thomas might be better.)

 

[Blazinaway]

The startling stat is Dame's only shooting 35% from 3.

That's BAD. For a guy who is universally considered a good shooter, that's an awful percentage. He really is very streaky.

Dude really needs to stop the pull ups from 30+ feet until he's hot. His 35% doesn't give him the license to chuck from that far.

I agree on this big time, he needs to be more selective in his 3's

 

[handiman]

Well it depends on who you count really, for example, I think of Giannis as a pg even if he isnt listed as such (he is the primary ball handler like harden so Im going to count him) but here is ten I think could be argued are better than dame:

Harden
Westbrick
Curry
CP3
Giannis
Irving
Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Walker


Dame probably could be ranked anywhere in the highlighted range including the bottom

That's what I was hinting at on the first page. Dame's reputation is as a top-10 player in the league and one of the elites at his position, but the reality is that he may be closer to league average [starter] PG status. That's not a bad thing, except that everything is built around him as an untouchable, including an atrocious defense. We're sort of stuck with mediocrity until the front office and fans come to grips with there being a lot of guys out there that have similar impact on the game.

Put rim protectors and defensive stoppers next to Dame and his defense doesn't look nearly as bad. We have direct evidence of this just two years ago when Dame was flanked by Wes/Nic/Rolo.

That team's defense was obviously a lot better, but Dame was still widely regarded back then as one of the worst defenders in the league. It was a solid defensive team that would have been one of the very best in that category with an upgrade at the point.

 

[H.C.]

smh @ this entire thread. @Denny Crane I'd like a thread ignore function please.

 

[illmatic99]

 

[BonesJones]

Dame might not be a top 10 pg marinate on THAT for a second

Just to follow up, here's the advanced stats comparison with Dame vs all 11 of the above noted PG's:

View attachment 11656

View attachment 11654

Dame's BPM is the lowest of the bunch except Kyrie. So, yeah, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that he is not a top 10 PG in the NBA this season.

Of course, the important question is is Dame the best PG FOR THE BLAZERS. And sadly, given CJ as SG, he's not. George Hill, for example, would be considerably better (at least this year), especially given his insane wingspan and ability to cover SGs. If we had someone like Klay Thompson or Tony Allen as our SG, then it'd be a different matter. (But then Isaiah Thomas might be better.)

The Lillard hatefest is fucking real right now.

This shit is getting annoying. First, it's trade or bench CJ (but still play him the same amount of minutes which makes no fucking difference then)

Then Lillard gets hurt, CJ has a good game and it's fucking "trade Lillard" now.

George Hill would be a better PG here? Lmao. Rasta dude, you gotta be kidding me.

Also, BPM is heavily affected by who they have around them, and if the team is winning or not. Lillards DBPM is lower because he has mediocre defenders around him and has had a shitty defensive scheme behind him.

Dame might not be a top 10 PG? Holy shit, how quickly you guys forget.

 

[Denny Crane]

smh @ this entire thread. @Denny Crane I'd like a thread ignore function please.

There's an unwatch thread link above the posts. You'll stop getting notifications, but you will still see the thread on the Blazers forum page (list of threads).

 

[BonesJones]

Dame's reputation is as a top-10 player in the league and one of the elites at his position, but the reality is that he may be closer to league average [starter] PG status.

You gotta be FUCKING JOKING.

 

[BonesJones]

Losing faith in this fanbase. You guys are sone fickle, "what have you done for me lately?" type dudes.

 

[BonesJones]

Well it depends on who you count really, for example, I think of Giannis as a pg even if he isnt listed as such (he is the primary ball handler like harden so Im going to count him) but here is ten I think could be argued are better than dame:

Harden
Westbrick
Curry
CP3
Giannis
Irving
Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Walker


Dame probably could be ranked anywhere in the highlighted range including the bottom

WTF? Giannis isn't a PG. Neither is Harden.

This thread is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. Shoutout to @Rastapopoulos for this.

 

[illmatic99]

I saw George Hill up close for 4 years here in Indy. This is a mirage. He's a VERY limited average player. Let him regress to the mean.

 

[e_blazer]

Losing faith in this fanbase. You guys are sone fickle, "what have you done for me lately?" type dudes.

Don't assume the Dame-bashers speak for the entire forum, or even most of it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The Lillard hatefest is fucking real right now.

How is saying that he MIGHT NOT BE TOP TEN a "hatefest"? You must have led a very sheltered life...

 

[BonesJones]

"Let's just pull up advanced stats that are heavily affected by team success and the players around him and just use it to bash Lillard."

"Oh wow, his Win Shares are lower. He's average". Win shares are affected by how much the team fucking wins.

"He's not first in BLK% or REB%" He's a fucking PG.

"His BPM is low" Because the team has played worse than the rest of those teams, and he has had an awful scheme that magnifies the defensive weaknesses he does have.

 

[BonesJones]

Don't assume the Dame-bashers speak for the entire forum, or even most of it.

I know. There's too many people like the one below

How is saying that he MIGHT NOT BE TOP TEN a "hatefest"? You must have led a very sheltered life...

Because that's a RIDUCULOUS claim that you're trying to back up with flawed "advance stats" that are dependent on much more than the one player.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

George Hill is an anomaly given the rest of his mediocre career.

Agree with you that the sample size is small, but disagree about "mediocre career". He's always been an excellent defender. People discount that way too much.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I know. There's too many people like the one below

"The One Below". I like that. Very Satanic. Imma take that.

Because that's a RIDUCULOUS claim that you're trying to back up with flawed "advance stats" that are dependent on much more than the one player.

So where would you rank him, and on what basis?

 

[chzbrgr]

WTF? Giannis isn't a PG. Neither is Harden.

This thread is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. Shoutout to @Rastapopoulos for this.

Read the disclaimer at the top or just the list? also I tried to make it as clear as possible that the ARGUMENT could be made not that I would have it with someone. Especially not when you react like this.

Youre not angry at the board for having this conversation youre angry cause deep down you know we're in a really tough spot as a team and there is no clear way forward.

 

[illmatic99]

Agree with you that the sample size is small, but disagree about "mediocre career". He's always been an excellent defender. People discount that way too much.

Indy couldn't wait to get rid of him.

 

[BonesJones]

I saw George Hill up close for 4 years here in Indy. This is a mirage. He's a VERY limited average player. Let him regress to the mean.

Dude has a good third of a season now he's better than Dame. SMH.

 

[BonesJones]

Read the disclaimer at the top or just the list? also I tried to make it as clear as possible that the ARGUMENT could be made not that I would have it with someone. Especially not when you react like this.

Youre not angry at the board for having this conversation youre angry cause deep down you know we're in a really tough spot as a team and there is no clear way forward.

I am angry at the board for turning on our best player with uneducated posts.