Zombie THE 2012 BIDEN/RYAN DEBATE - THE BATTLE OF CHAPLIN HILLS II

[MARIS61]

I started as a registered democrat. Then I switched to republican. Now I'm a registered independent as I learned that neither party has all the answers. I would say over the last 3 elections I've voted 60/40 republican.

Flip-flopper!

 

[MARIS61]

Bottom Line: I'm not keen on our national security leaders laughing off Iran's nuclear program by saying "don't worry about it...they don't have a weapon to put uranium on if they had it!"

Myself, I think it's a pretty significant point that he used simply to illustrate that we have a lot more time to convince Iran than Israel is saying. Next spring isn't the end of the world, not from an Iranian nuke anyway. The embargoes are crippling Iran and we don't need to freak out and start another war right now.

I like having cooler heads running the country. It's refreshing.

 

[MARIS61]

I also think if we do attack Iran, we'll here about it afterwards, not before. Maybe it's already in motion. Obama does not telegraph things to the enemy, as Ryan implied. The Bin Laden hit is an example.

 

[maxiep]

My read is that Biden was going for the base and ignoring the idea of swaying independents. My guess is they've seen Romney is willing them by a wide margin. Hence, the strategy is to make it a base election. Therefore, he needed to fire up the Democrats, which I think he did.

On the flip side, this debate was Ryan's only opportunity to show he was ready for the job. He was calm, focused and serious. I thought he was a bit meek--I would have looked directly at Biden when I was was speaking--but he accomplished his goal.

My guess is that it was roughly a draw, which is probably good news for Romney.

 

[ABM]

I like having cooler dudes running the country. It's refreshing.

FIFY.

 

[Rhal]

It should be noted that the CNN poll were it had Ryan at 48% and Biden at 44% was of 381 people who watched the debate at a +/- of 5%
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3262

 

[STOMP]

Well, here's one independent vote for Ryan.

do you think any regular here thinks you're anything but a Repub ? I mostly browse the OT section, but I've read nothing but across the board pro-R from you... it's no news flash that you see things that way once again

STOMP

 

[Rhal]

I think Biden won the debate as handily as Romney won the debate and they used the same type of method. Talking over the moderator and their opponent.

 

[MickZagger]

do you think any regular here thinks you're anything but a Repub ? I mostly browse the OT section, but I've read nothing but across the board pro-R from you... it's no news flash that you see things that way once again

STOMP

He's not the only Repub on this site thats a wolf in sheep's clothing. Too many far righties hide behind the label, "Independent".

 

[PapaG]

Biden's laughing turned off a lot of people. I get that the idea was to be dismissive of Ryan, but when Ryan is talking about people dying in Libya, and Biden is laughing on a split screen, it comes across as detached.

I don't think this debate changes anybody's opinion, other than Ryan came across as perhaps a bit too passive, and Biden came across as a bit of a bully who even pointed his finger at the moderator a few times.

Maxiep has it right, I think. Biden was loud, rude, a bit aloof, and arrogant, and that works to fire up his base. Ryan seemed a bit too unemotional and wonkish.

The big lie in this debate, though, was Biden saying nobody in the State Department claimed it was terrorism. That directly belies yesterday's testimony in the House by senior State staffers. Romney needs to corner Obama on this obvious lie in the foreign policy debate.

 

[ABM]

He's not the only Repub on this site thats a wolf in sheep's clothing. Too many far righties hide behind the label, "Independent".

I'm a "rightie" in the sense that I want as limited - and prudent - government as possible, lower taxation, a reasonably strong military, and the notion that most people can think for themselves, are hard working individuals who don't need/want government thinking for them nor taking arbitrary liberties with their hard-earned cash. I believe that the best way to attack the deficit is through a strong economy.

 

[THE HCP]

Never check out these threads...... probably because I don't follow politics whatsoever. Kind of ashamed of this, but I don't. Have never watched a debate in my life. I also am not one of those people on facebook or here that bitches about everything either. Is following politics a hobby for you guys? I know it is important to be informed, but do you really think staying up on all the latest is that important?

 

[PapaG]

CNN Poll: Paul Ryan Won the Debate!

10/11/12

Final CNN debate speaking time: Biden 41:32, Ryan 40:12. Closer than the presidential debate.

Gloria Berger of CNN says she could have done without Biden's giggles. Many other reporters blasted off on Biden's style.

Scientific Poll - 351 registered voters who watched debate

•Who won: Paul Ryan 48%, Joe Biden 44%
•Registered voters: 55% say Biden did better than expected.
•Registered voters: 51% say Ryan did better than expected.
•Is Biden qualified to be President: Yes 57%
•Is Ryan qualified to be President: Yes 60%
•More time attacking: Biden 70%, Ryan 19% <-- LOL
•Likeable: Ryan 53%, Biden 43%

 

[ABM]

Never check out these threads...... probably because I don't follow politics whatsoever. Kind of ashamed of this, but I don't. Have never watched a debate in my life. I also am not one of those people on facebook or here that bitches about everything either. Is following politics a hobby for you guys? I know it is important to be informed, but do you really think staying up on all the latest is that important?

Generally speaking, I tend to start getting "truly" interested when the debates begin. The campaigning (mud-slinging) is a bore. The media continues to be biased, one way or another. However, a well moderated debate can be informative and get to the core of the matters. Plus, they're entertaining to me.

 

[PapaG]

Biden's teeth were hilarious tonight.

 

[STOMP]

I'm a "rightie" in the sense that I want as limited - and prudent - government as possible, lower taxation, a reasonably strong military, and the notion that most people can think for themselves, are hard working individuals who don't need/want government thinking for them nor taking arbitrary liberties with their hard-earned cash. I believe that the best way to attack the deficit is through a strong economy.

I only wish the R's walked their talking points but unfortunately their actions over the past couple decades haven't come anywhere close. Judging by actions, they're for growing government, starting wars & bartering power... being eager to spit on science and basic math makes them especially loathsome. They're even more willing corporate whores then the D's

It's a joke that they still call themselves Conservatives as they're anything but

STOMP

 

[BrianFromWA]

Would you say that for those people who are like ABM that the Democratic Party is who they should be voting for, then?

 

[THE HCP]

But even if you watch these debates, they say they are going to do this and that........ do they ever really follow thru?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

ILLUMINATI

 

[STOMP]

Would you say that for those people who are like ABM that the Democratic Party is who they should be voting for, then?

you talking to me (twitch twitch Travis Bickle style )

I'm not sure what to advise in the short term other then hoping others work to reform our process. As it stands right now politicians pander to our wants as voters preening and saying whatever we want to hear and then (once elected) do what they need to gather necessary $ for another campaign by pandering to those interests with it. Basically without a real change in the process, the interests of the voters is only going to be given lip service

we need to root out the $ from the process. Citizens United is a big step in the wrong direction in representation of the people. I'd love to see us take that back and then some... I'm definitely on board with some sort of public financing of elections as this current money train has us full throttle ahead towards a complete disaster

Romney seems like the worst option as he has zero spine on anything, but I'll probably vote for Gary Johnson this cycle to throw a 3rd party guy some support. I'm far from on board with him, but what we need is real choice without the BS

STOMP

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Ugh- I do not like Ryan!

To me, Biden clearly won the debate. But that was to be expected given Biden is a seasoned debater. All Ryan had to do to score points tonight was to connect with American voters the way Romney did.

I don't think the VP debate will influence more than a very small percentage of voters. So kind of a no harm no foul debate. But ugh on Ryan.

 

[THE HCP]

ILLUMINATI

I believe that shit is for real!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

do you think any regular here thinks you're anything but a Repub ? I mostly browse the OT section, but I've read nothing but across the board pro-R from you... it's no news flash that you see things that way once again

STOMP

As usual, you read like a sheep. Maybe look at my posts supporting Obama or blasting the GOP..... no, wait, .... you can't do that as you have a position you MUST support. Sorry, sheep, go back to your pen.

The problem with you sheep is that anyone who isn't 1,000% for you, you believe is against you. Independent thinking is not allowed. Only complete and total lock stepping with the party line. Stompie, now you know (well, if you have the mental and emotional capacity to understand this) why I am not a sheep. I refuse to allow myself to be told what to think or believe by anyone or anything. I call them as I see them and not how I'm told to. If I like the dem, I vote for them. If I like the gop candidate, I vote for them. I mean, I understand why people like you and others here can't get that concept- your posts make it painfully clear. The fact of the matter is I feel sorry for people like you who place themselves in a narrow thinking box with no way out. I just can't do that. My world doesn't, and never will, revolve around what I am told to believe- even when I know it's wrong. I'm long since free of that crap. I see the hate in sheep's posts and I never want to go there. Never.

 

[MickZagger]

When the biggest talking point after the debate for Republican's is how much Biden was smiling, I think its obvious who won the debate on substance.

 

[MickZagger]

I'm a "rightie" in the sense that I want as limited - and prudent - government as possible, lower taxation, a reasonably strong military, and the notion that most people can think for themselves, are hard working individuals who don't need/want government thinking for them nor taking arbitrary liberties with their hard-earned cash. I believe that the best way to attack the deficit is through a strong economy.

To think that Democrats are just out for government help is silly. This freeloader (D) vs. entrepeneurship (R) rhetoric is such a divisive and silly tactic.

The majority of true freeloaders who want government assistance aren't political. They don't vote.

Unions are the backbone of the middle class. There's a reason why Unions are always in the back pocket of the Democratic party.

 

[Denny Crane]

I only wish the R's walked their talking points but unfortunately their actions over the past couple decades haven't come anywhere close. Judging by actions, they're for growing government, starting wars & bartering power... being eager to spit on science and basic math makes them especially loathsome. They're even more willing corporate whores then the D's

It's a joke that they still call themselves Conservatives as they're anything but

STOMP

I actually agree with this assessment for the most part.

It raises a question in my mind, though.

Let's assume republicans actually want to shrink govt. or keep it the same size and democrats want to grow it. Doesn't "compromise" imply they have to grow govt. more than republicans want but less than democrats want?

Similarly, if a president represents all of the people and half the people, say, favor abortion and half oppose it, then wouldn't "compromise" imply legal abortion (to satisfy one half the people) with serious restrictions (to satisfy the other)? I thought W was in a tough spot on stem cells for this exact same reason and did come up with a compromise - one that seemed pretty good since nobody was really happy with it.

As for wars, until the two Bush presidencies, Republicans ended wars started by Democrats going all the way back to the days of Lincoln (not including Abe). It is a joke they call themselves Conservatives.

To be fair, though, Romney and Ryan aren't Bush and Cheney. They're trying to sound more like Reagan than like Newt (liberal bashers) or the lesser "conservatives" that followed him (neo-cons then social conservatives).

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

To think that Democrats are just out for government help is silly. This freeloader (D) vs. entrepeneurship (R) rhetoric is such a divisive and silly tactic.

The majority of true freeloaders who want government assistance aren't political. They don't vote.

Unions are the backbone of the middle class. There's a reason why Unions are always in the back pocket of the Democratic party.

The problem I have with your post isn't justbecause it's wrong. That's evident by your political affiliation. In the first sentence you make a point that when the right makes a generic statement that isn't really true (but does have a definitive element of truth in it), it's wrong for the right to use it. Then in your last sentence you do the exact same thing from the left and it's OK. In other words, the right is not permited to use generalities, but the left can.

 

[Denny Crane]

A view from the right (Breitbart).

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/11/Biden-Loses-It

The debate itself was secondary to the demeanor of Biden. Biden had nothing to run on, so he decided to distract. And those pearly whites were a bizarre distraction from what could have been a substantive debate.

Biden interrupted Ryan repeatedly. He would not allow Ryan to finish an answer; where he stopped interrupting for even a few moments, his moderator ally, Martha Raddatz, jumped in to help him cut Ryan short.

This was the big problem for Biden going in: the American people didn’t like him. His favorables were far lower than Ryan’s. This debate did him no favors. And if the vice presidential debate was any indicator of the new, aggressive strategy of the Obama/Biden ticket, it will be off-putting to Americans in a dramatic way. It appears blustery and unlikeable – and most of all, dramatically angry and unserious.

Biden did it because Obama was somnambulant during the first debate. So Biden came out swinging. And more than anything else, he came out like an enormous bully, determined not to let Ryan get in a word edgewise.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Surfing the net, no surprise that this VP debate fell hard along partisan lines as each side is declaring a big victory. Funny that as both sides declare victory, most of the analysis from both sides is on Biden.

I don't think the VP debate will have any effect on the election . . . I do feel this next debate has the potential of having a big effect on the election. That is if people haven't already decided based on the first debate and feel like they don't need to watch another debate. Obama better hope not.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I don't think the VP debate will have any effect on the election . . . .

So true. A VP debate is almost meaningless.