Politics The Joe Biden Thread

[Phatguysrule]

So we do not know the true cost, nor is there a plan to pay for it. You may want incompetent irresponsible people in charge of the world's biggest piggy bank, but I do not!

You also used misdirection to avoid answering my direct question. But you did raise additional problems I have with this rail system.

Let's take a look at one more problem. Where this system goes, and who will ride it.

It travels between major population centers, good. But, who will actually ride this system?

Only the people that want to go from from one major city, to another, AND, have the funds to buy a ticket. I mention the cost of a ticket for a reason. Have you looked at passenger rail ticket prices lately? Look up a trip on Amtrak and be prepared for sticker shock. Only the upper middle class will be able to afford to ride Biden's system on a regular basis. This rail system does nothing to help the poor and struggling middle class.

This elete rail system will only benifit a small % of elete upper middle class passengers, paid for by the poor and struggling middle class.

BTW, I have ridden on long cross country train rides, boring, once was enough.

I have also ridden on the fast bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto, boring, once was enough.

The price for all public transport like this should be free for passengers.

The price to completely build out Obama's high speed rail would be around a $1T. To build out high speed rail as extensive as China would be in the $5T range.

The economic, time savings, and environmental benefits would more than offset the cost.

It would be self funding by virtue of saving us money, time, and financial costs of relying solely on fossil fuel and battery powered vehicles.

And no, there is no reason to put incompetent, irresponsible people in charge of it.

 

[barfo]

But, who will actually ride this system?

Only the people that want to go from from one major city, to another, AND, have the funds to buy a ticket.

The only form of transportation that is truly no cost is walking. So I assume you do that when you want to go between cities? Takes a while, but you do have time to appreciate the scenery, if any.

I have also ridden on the fast bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto, boring, once was enough.

Ok, so you don't like trains. What is your preferred method to get from Tokyo to Kyoto? Is it quick and free?

barfo

 

[oldfisherman]

The price for all public transport like this should be free for passengers.

The price to completely build out Obama's high speed rail would be around a $1T. To build out high speed rail as extensive as China would be in the $5T range.

The economic, time savings, and environmental benefits would more than offset the cost.

It would be self funding by virtue of saving us money, time, and financial costs of relying solely on fossil fuel and battery powered vehicles.

And no, there is no reason to put incompetent, irresponsible people in charge of it.

Third try, my touch sceen phone is misbeaving, again. The local native Americans must be using the cell tower for target practice, again.

Your response is all smoke and mirrors BS wrapped in a should be free voodoo economics pill. Not sold.

Lets assume this giant waste of tax $$$ happens. And millions of cars are removed from the road. This creates yet another giant funding problem you have not solved.

The cars on the road are a self funding system. Trillions of tax $$$ generated just on the fuel taxes alone. $$$ spread out to all levels of government to pay for the infrastructure they use. The same infrastructure you want to use for electric buses and trains. How do you replace this giant loss of revenues?


There may be an entertainment value to your plan. We get to watch our wife and daughters rub elbows with a meth head, while everyone is naked, since cloths are made from oil, while inclosed in a sealed chamber to keep the germs and viruses from escaping. Sounds like fun.

I will think about it, if you throw in a bullet proof hazmat suit for everyone, free of course.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Third try, my touch sceen phone is misbeaving, again. The local native Americans must be using the cell tower for target practice, again.

Your response is all smoke and mirrors BS wrapped in a should be free voodoo economics pill. Not sold.

Lets assume this giant waste of tax $$$ happens. And millions of cars are removed from the road. This creates yet another giant funding problem you have not solved.

The cars on the road are a self funding system. Trillions of tax $$$ generated just on the fuel taxes alone. $$$ spread out to all levels of government to pay for the infrastructure they use. The same infrastructure you want to use for electric buses and trains. How do you replace this giant loss of revenues?

There may be an entertainment value to your plan. We get to watch our wife and daughters rub elbows with a meth head, while everyone is naked, since cloths are made from oil, while inclosed in a sealed chamber to keep the germs and viruses from escaping. Sounds like fun.

I will think about it, if you throw in a bullet proof hazmat suit for everyone, free of course.

Nobody would be forced to ride anything. You can still drive, if you want.

The point would be to make it cheaper and faster than driving.

And fuel taxes to pay for roads are going away anyway. We'll use less and less fossil fuel from now on. You'll either be paying per mile traveled or income tax, or some other way.

I'm not sure what your point about clothes is.

 

[Voodoo]

High Speed Rail in the PNW to get portion of 8.2 billion designated for Passenger Rail Development (whitehouse.gov)

This is cool, but why did they make it so dang small I cannot read the legend on my phone.

 

[Voodoo]

So we do not know the true cost, nor is there a plan to pay for it. You may want incompetent irresponsible people in charge of the world's biggest piggy bank, but I do not!

You also used misdirection to avoid answering my direct question. But you did raise additional problems I have with this rail system.

Let's take a look at one more problem. Where this system goes, and who will ride it.

It travels between major population centers, good. But, who will actually ride this system?

Only the people that want to go from from one major city, to another, AND, have the funds to buy a ticket. I mention the cost of a ticket for a reason. Have you looked at passenger rail ticket prices lately? Look up a trip on Amtrak and be prepared for sticker shock. Only the upper middle class will be able to afford to ride Biden's system on a regular basis. This rail system does nothing to help the poor and struggling middle class.

This elete rail system will only benifit a small % of elete upper middle class passengers, paid for by the poor and struggling middle class.

BTW, I have ridden on long cross country train rides, boring, once was enough.

I have also ridden on the fast bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto, boring, once was enough.

Dude it’s $26 next week to ride a train from Portland to Seattle, on Southwest Airlines it’s $285. Both are subsidized by the government. Flying is a much MUCH worse experience than riding a train in my experience. It’s much less comfortable on a plane, and getting thru TSA is a PITA, although better than it has been in recent memory.

Obviously taking a cross country train isn’t practical, no matter how fast the train is. But for short haul flights taking a train is much better IMO. The only advantage flying has is that it is faster from point a to point b. But if the train were slightly faster, or had fewer stops, it would be even more of a compelling offer.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is cool, but why did they make it so dang small I cannot read the legend on my phone.

Sorry. I found a better image and updated the post.

 

[crandc]

When I was a kid we went cross country by train.

 

[barfo]

The cars on the road are a self funding system.

This is only about half true. The other half comes out of general tax revenues.

barfo

 

[Road Ratt]

Weekend Update: Hunter Biden’s Federal Indictment, UPenn President Resigns - SNL

 

[crandc]

President Biden responded to Trump's "burn in hell" Christmas message by quoting Matthew: love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, bless them that curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

It got almost no publicity. Not very colorful.

Besides, Biden is old.

 

[riverman]

So we do not know the true cost, nor is there a plan to pay for it. You may want incompetent irresponsible people in charge of the world's biggest piggy bank, but I do not!

You also used misdirection to avoid answering my direct question. But you did raise additional problems I have with this rail system.

Let's take a look at one more problem. Where this system goes, and who will ride it.

It travels between major population centers, good. But, who will actually ride this system?

Only the people that want to go from from one major city, to another, AND, have the funds to buy a ticket. I mention the cost of a ticket for a reason. Have you looked at passenger rail ticket prices lately? Look up a trip on Amtrak and be prepared for sticker shock. Only the upper middle class will be able to afford to ride Biden's system on a regular basis. This rail system does nothing to help the poor and struggling middle class.

This elete rail system will only benifit a small % of elete upper middle class passengers, paid for by the poor and struggling middle class.

BTW, I have ridden on long cross country train rides, boring, once was enough.

I have also ridden on the fast bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto, boring, once was enough.

The high speed rail system in Taipei Taiwan cleared the most horrible pollution out of the air, stopped the horrible traffic congestion and is very affordable and efficient..I lived there during and before they had the rail. It changed the quality of life for millions of people in Taiwan...a ticket is super cheap and can be bought at any 7-11 store. Given that our budget blows trillions on weapons reasearch I don't see serving the public with affordable transportation as a misuse of public funds. The government in Taiwan paid for the high speed rail and the French Company ELF built it along with other rail systems around Asia. We dropped the boat on those contracts. Car culture in America has a large, anti public transportation lobby and always has here. I'd love to be able to go see my kids in San Diego in a few hours on a high speed rail than spending 2 days on Amtrak for the price of a plane ticket. Choices. Spending money on infrastructure has my vote, if we don't benefit from our tax dollars I sure as hell don't want arms dealers getting it instead. Rail systems also keep people from driving who are elderly or people who like to drink don't have to drive home with good public transportation. Money is not the problem at all. It will save people a ton of money if they are willing to use it. I'd sure go to more Blazer games if a high speed rail connected Portland to Eugene. I'm glad to see a president finally put some infrastructure plans into effect. We are behind the major world economies in this technology for the most part.

 

[oldfisherman]

The high speed rail system in Taipei Taiwan cleared the most horrible pollution out of the air, stopped the horrible traffic congestion and is very affordable and efficient..I lived there during and before they had the rail. It changed the quality of life for millions of people in Taiwan...a ticket is super cheap and can be bought at any 7-11 store. Given that our budget blows trillions on weapons reasearch I don't see serving the public with affordable transportation as a misuse of public funds. The government in Taiwan paid for the high speed rail and the French Company ELF built it along with other rail systems around Asia. We dropped the boat on those contracts. Car culture in America has a large, anti public transportation lobby and always has here. I'd love to be able to go see my kids in San Diego in a few hours on a high speed rail than spending 2 days on Amtrak for the price of a plane ticket. Choices. Spending money on infrastructure has my vote, if we don't benefit from our tax dollars I sure as hell don't want arms dealers getting it instead. Rail systems also keep people from driving who are elderly or people who like to drink don't have to drive home with good public transportation. Money is not the problem at all. It will save people a ton of money if they are willing to use it. I'd sure go to more Blazer games if a high speed rail connected Portland to Eugene. I'm glad to see a president finally put some infrastructure plans into effect. We are behind the major world economies in this technology for the most part.

I liked your post because you contributed good and interesting thoughts. But....

After reviewing all of the info, I have come to a different conclusion.

You "want" high speed trains in the PNW. I do not believe we "need" high speed trains in the PNW. I could be talked into expanding light rail in our major cities, but not fast trains to connect them. We have too many real problems that "need" to be fixed before we have the luxury of fast trains that only a small portion of the population will use.

Speaking of population. The PNW does not have the population size or the density to support a market for fast trains. Taiwan and the east coast of the USA do.

 

[riverman]

I liked your post because you contributed good and interesting thoughts. But....

After reviewing all of the info, I have come to a different conclusion.

You "want" high speed trains in the PNW. I do not believe we "need" high speed trains in the PNW. I could be talked into exspanding light rail in our major cities, but not fast trains to connect them. We have too many real problems that "need" to be fixed before we have the luxury of fast trains that only a small portion of the population will use.

Speaking of population. The PNW does not have the population size or the density to support a market for fast trains. Taiwan and the east coast of the USA does.

We disagree...I believe the west coast is the perfect place to put a high speed line connecting from Canada to Mexico. Not only people move on high speed rails as goods are shipped by them as well but the idea that people won't use them is dated and just a habitual American response to public transport..Eugene shop owners bitched about the bus system they've put in but the elderly, poor and handicapped love it. The people complaining usually are folks who will drive their giant monster truck 2 blocks to the convenience store to buy a big gulp and then get a gym membership to lose weight when they could just walk to the store once in a while but what do I know. With the cost of gas I travel much less than I ever would if time and expense weren't such a factor in traveling . I coud go anywhere in Taiwan without owning a car faster than you could if you drove one. Choices. In this day and age high speed rails should be an option everywhere. Our power grid is pretty archaic as well when all our lines should be buried instead of sitting on creosote poles that burn and fall down with the weight of ice and snow in the winter. These are not wasteful infrastructure projects anymore than bridges and roads are. I'm for progress and lowering our human carbon footprint for future generations. America's fascination with automobile culture is simply not sustainable for future generations and in my view we've mistakenly devoted too much of our real estate to the auto. Not enough public housing but plenty of parking lots and garages. Thanks for engaging me in the convo though.

 

[riverman]

Really inspiring speech by Joe! I highly recommend listening to his Jan 6 speech

 

[crandc]

I will, thanks.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Key South Carolina Democrat raises alarm bells for Biden campaign

CNN
—
Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina said Sunday that President Joe Biden’s 2024 campaign isn’t breaking through the “MAGA wall.”

“I have no problem with the Biden administration and what it has done. My problem is we have not been able to break through that MAGA wall in order to get to people exactly what this president has done,” Clyburn said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

His comments come just days after Biden kicked off his 2024 campaign with an impassioned argument that GOP frontrunner former president Donald Trump could destroy American democracy.

“Donald Trump’s campaign is about him, not America. Not you. Donald Trump’s campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. He’s willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power,” Biden said.

While polling has shown that democracy itself is a central issue for Americans ahead of November’s election, Biden still faces stubbornly low approval ratings, persistent questions and concerns about his ability to serve another term; and diminished support from some key components of his winning coalition from 2020.

CNN’s inaugural “Road to 270” electoral map shows Biden the president struggling to re-create the Electoral College majority from his successful 2020 run and Trump with enough states solidly in his corner or leaning in his direction to put him in a position to win the presidency again

 

[julius]

The "maga" wall is like a quarter of the country, maybe he should concentrate on the other 75% of us who aren't brainwashed cultists.

 

[crandc]

The Trump cult will support him no matter how senile he is, if his remarks about building a dome over the country make no sense it is considered proof of his godlike intellect. I think Clyburn is worried about 2020 voters not turning out. In 2016 few Obama voters flipped to Trump but a lot thought it was awesome to not vote. People have short political memories about what a disaster Trump was, and he would be far worse second time.

 

[julius]

The Trump cult will support him no matter how senile he is, if his remarks about building a dome over the country make no sense it is considered proof of his godlike intellect. I think Clyburn is worried about 2020 voters not turning out. In 2016 few Obama voters flipped to Trump but a lot thought it was awesome to not vote. People have short political memories about what a disaster Trump was, and he would be far worse second time.

This is something I'm worried about. People going back to being apathetic.

But I have hopes in the younger generation (18-28) who are overwhelmingly against Trump, despite what those "alpha males" on social media claim.

 

[crandc]

Using resources allotted under Inflation Reduction Act, the Biden Administration recovered more than $500 million from ultra rich and corporate tax cheats.

 

[Galakelife]

Using resources allotted under Inflation Reduction Act, the Biden Administration recovered more than $500 million from ultra rich and corporate tax cheats.

use those funds to close the border and you would save a lot more then that

 

[crandc]

Closing the border would crash the economy.
Do I need to ask which border you want to close? The one the scary brown people use, por supuesto.

 

[beast blazer]

Closing the border would crash the economy.
Do I need to ask which border you want to close? The one the scary brown people use, por supuesto.

Closing the border would not crash the economy. What do you people smoke? If millions of Canadians were coming here illegally it would be an issue too. Saying it's "racist" to want to enforce border security is stupid.

This used to not be a controversial issue. Cesar Chavez was against illegal immigration...I guess he was "racist".

You clowns...

 

[jonnyboy]

Using resources allotted under Inflation Reduction Act, the Biden Administration recovered more than $500 million from ultra rich and corporate tax cheats.

They spent $80B to hire the goons to accomplish that. They will never get the money back they put in. They literally stole a bunch of tax money to hire people to steal more tax money. Its wild to chock it up as a win.

 

[Phatguysrule]

use those funds to close the border and you would save a lot more then that

Where would these savings come from? Can you show the math?

What is your definition of closing the border?

Illegal immigrants pay around $11 billion in taxes per year.

So spending $500 million to cut that out of our economy seems like we're going the wrong direction on tax receipts alone...

 

[Phatguysrule]

They spent $80B to hire the goons to accomplish that. They will never get the money back they put in. They literally stole a bunch of tax money to hire people to steal more tax money. Its wild to chock it up as a win.

The IRS is not a profit center. I don't want it to be. Investment into enforcement of our laws cannot be calculated by profit or loss because hopefully more people will just start paying their taxes, and so they will not be able to be caught cheating.

I don't want the IRS going after people who aren't cheating in the hopes of justifying their funding.

Just like I don't want police framing people to meet a quota.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

They spent $80B to hire the goons to accomplish that. They will never get the money back they put in. They literally stole a bunch of tax money to hire people to steal more tax money. Its wild to chock it up as a win.

Why the hostility? Especially when it is highly unlikely to impact you directly? Taxes are the price we pay for living in a "civilized" society. Those IRS people are NOT "goons". They are working class folks (in general) just trying to do the jobs they were hired to do (just like you). I am 69 years old and have been paying taxes since I was 12 years old. I have never cheated on my taxes. I have never hired someone to find ludicrous tax loopholes in order to dodge paying my "fair" share. It is my obligation as an American citizen, regardless of my political party affiliation. It is the obligation of EVERY American citizen and business entity. Dodging taxes is not "smart", as the Orange Man claims. It is immoral, deceitful and unpatriotic. I'm tired of paying my share while others get rich cheating the system. Guys like Trump pay MORE money to dodge taxes than they actually owe in taxes. It's all a game for them. It's an ego boost. And it sucks that the Democrats have allowed the Republicans to claw some of that IRS funding back. I don't know where you get that the government has "stolen" that tax money. The real thieves are those who refused to pay it in the first place.

 

[barfo]

They spent $80B to hire the goons to accomplish that. They will never get the money back they put in. They literally stole a bunch of tax money to hire people to steal more tax money. Its wild to chock it up as a win.

That is, of course, wildly incorrect.

The $80B for new personnel (now cut to $60B) has mostly not been spent yet. And much of it is not for 'goons', but rather for data scientists, computer modernization, customer service personnel, etc.

But I guess if you consider taxes 'stealing', then sure.

I mean, the constitution guarantees your right to have wealthy people cheat on their taxes, correct?

barfo

 

[Galakelife]

Where would these savings come from? Can you show the math?

What is your definition of closing the border?

Illegal immigrants pay around $11 billion in taxes per year.

So spending $500 million to cut that out of our economy seems like we're going the wrong direction on tax receipts alone...

a closed border is where you cant just walk across the border and start living in the US. Go thru the proper paper work and become legal.
New York along is spending 12billion on migrant crisis this year, you are now at a negative with just 1 city.

And by the Crandc i am not a racist just because i love my country and dont want it invaded by anyone who feels like coming here from both the North and South border.