Politics The Joe Biden Thread (2 Viewers)

[Phatguysrule]

Only that I don’t trust the source.

Greedflation’ caused more than half of last year’s inflation surge, study finds, as corporate profits remain at all-time highs

Corporate profits drove 53% of inflation during the second and third quarters of 2023 and more than one-third since the start of the pandemic, the report found, analyzing Commerce Department data. That’s a massive jump from the four decades prior to the pandemic, when profits drove just 11% of price growth.

Fortune Magazine – Bias and Credibility

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Trump Confuses Nancy Pelosi with Nikki Haley, Blames the Latter for Jan. 6 Capitol Riot: ‘Nikki Haley Is in Charge of Security’

Former President Donald Trump blamed his Republican presidential opponent and former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley for the Jan. 6 Capitol riot during a rally on Friday.

Speaking in Concord, New Hampshire, Trump confused his former ambassador to the U.N. with former Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Trump has previously blamed Pelosi for the security breakdown that enabled the Jan. 6 Capitol riot to take place. During his speech, Trump repeatedly said Haley’s name before claiming she was behind the lapse.

“You know, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, you know they– do you know they destroyed all of the information and all of the evidence?” Trump told the crowd. “Everything. Deleted and destroyed all of it. All of it because of, lots of things. Like, Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people.”

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trum...ol-riot-nikki-haley-is-in-charge-of-security/

 

[crandc]

But Biden is old!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

But Biden is old!

He is old.

But he does seem to have put together a highly capable and effective cabinet which was a huge failing of the last administration.

 

[crandc]

Both are old. One shows clear and frequent signs of dementia, and it isn't Biden.

 

[Voodoo]

Your propensity to boil this down to partisan politics and the good guy/bad guy, dem/repub paradigm makes having an actual discussion essentially impossible for me because I dont live in that reality. We are seeing the world through seperate overton windows. Arguing physics on different planets. It just wont go anywhere so its not really worth trying. I do appreciate your thoughful and respectful responses though.

I am not sure what you're referring to with what part of my arguments are boiling things down to partisan politics. I am simply stating what are basically accepted facts by people who are experts in this field, this is supported by lots and lots of evidence. Here's some useful information from the website Taxpolicycenter.com to support my initial claims that the IRS's stated objectives of enforcing tax law against rich people, as the frequency in auditing them has greatly diminished in the last decade.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/tax...sinformation-about-irss-plan-spend-80-billion

The audit rate of people with an annual income of at least $1 million fell from 8.4 percent in 2010 to 2.4 percent in 2019. Once, nearly all the country’s largest corporations were audited. Now only about half are.

Treasury insists audit rates would not increase relative to recent levels for taxpayers with income below $400,000.

Is it possible the IRS may increase audits on folks making less than $400k? Yes, absolutely. But is that their primary goal in the increased budget? No, it's pretty clear it is not.

This is a very good overview of the situation here.

https://www.newsweek.com/government...really-try-collect-rich-peoples-taxes-1577610

The above article articulates the issue very well, and with graphs. But here's some of the key take away points.

"After years of Republican budget cuts and skewed priorities, the IRS now audits those who make $20,000 at about the same rate as the top 1 percent, even though the vast majority of unpaid taxes are attributable to wealthy tax cheats,"..... At the same time, overall enforcement has been hobbled by draconian budget reductions that have resulted in 43 percent fewer IRS revenue agents and 26 percent fewer IRS criminal investigators in the last decade, according to the Syracuse data..... A recent report from the Treasury Department's inspector general concluded that at the IRS, "high-income taxpayers are generally not a collection priority, nor is there a strategy in place to address nonpayment by high-income taxpayers." As evidence, the report showed that the agency failed to recover more than 60 percent of the $4 billion in back taxes owed by those making more than $1.5 million.

The evidence supports my argument, and the talking points from Republicans are straight from their donor class who do not want enforcement. This has been a long coordinated and strategic plan, a conspiracy if you will, to make the IRS enforcement underfunded this has been very intentional. Auditing the super wealthy takes a long time, and a lot of resources to do correctly, and if your agency is under funded, you'll avoid using your scarce resources to audit a billionaire that may take 6+ months to complete because of the complexity of the audit. This results in less enforcement, and thus the wealthy essentially are relied on to willfully pay their taxes on an honor system. And without a doubt, that doesn't work, and if you believe that they would/will I have a bridge in St. Johns I am eager to sell you at a deeply discounted rate.

 

[Voodoo]

He isn’t on trial for tax fraud, so this example doesn’t land the way you are intending it to. Tax fraud would be a federal criminal case. This is a civil case being pressed by by a local prosecutor. There isnt even a living, breathing plantiff lol. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the case, which is understandable if you consume mainstream media. Most people making these arguments against Trump seem to mix up these same details, which ironically happen to be the most important ones and the crux of their entire argument.

Your argument is misleading, my statement was that Trump was on trial for tax fraud. I guess I am technically incorrect in two ways, I conflated Trump with his company. Second he's no longer on trial, he was found guilty of it. On the first technicality, although it was his company, he was still leading the company so he is still at fault at the end of the day.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-organization-fraud-trial-verdict/index.html

A Manhattan jury has found two Trump Organization companies guilty on multiple charges of criminal tax fraud and falsifying business records connected to a 15-year scheme to defraud tax authorities

 

[Voodoo]

Greedflation’ caused more than half of last year’s inflation surge, study finds, as corporate profits remain at all-time highs

Corporate profits drove 53% of inflation during the second and third quarters of 2023 and more than one-third since the start of the pandemic, the report found, analyzing Commerce Department data. That’s a massive jump from the four decades prior to the pandemic, when profits drove just 11% of price growth.

Fortune Magazine – Bias and Credibility

This is part of the risk of having virtual monopolies, they can affect inflation as they control supply, and they can set prices how they see fit rather than by what the market dictates. Take a look at the housing market for an example, without more houses rent and costs of ownership for a house has skyrocketed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/21/how...le-family-homes-and-put-them-up-for-rent.html

Institutional investors may control 40% of U.S. single-family rental homes by 2030

 

[stampedehero]

https://www.govinfo.gov/collection/january-6th-committee-final-report?path=/GPO/January 6th Committee Final Report and Supporting Materials Collection The J6 Report.

 

[stampedehero]

Key South Carolina Democrat raises alarm bells for Biden campaign

I'm just scrollin on by~

 

[jonnyboy]

Your argument is misleading, my statement was that Trump was on trial for tax fraud. I guess I am technically incorrect in two ways, I conflated Trump with his company. Second he's no longer on trial, he was found guilty of it. On the first technicality, although it was his company, he was still leading the company so he is still at fault at the end of the day.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/06/politics/trump-organization-fraud-trial-verdict/index.html

My argument is misleading because you brought up an entirely different (closed) case where Trump himself was not even the defendant? That is me being misleading? An honest person would say you were the one not being forthright here. It’s pretty obvious you were wrong about the current case, the one that is actually relevant and happening right now, the one we both were clearly referring to, so you dug up something random from well over a year ago to try and save face.

 

[Voodoo]

My argument is misleading because you brought up an entirely different (closed) case where Trump himself was not even the defendant? That is me being misleading? An honest person would say you were the one not being forthright here. It’s pretty obvious you were wrong about the current case, the one that is actually relevant and happening right now, the one we both were clearly referring to, so you dug up something random from well over a year ago to try and save face.

Nice try, but as I stated I was wrong and specified how. In my original post I didn’t specify a case, what I was referring to was the NY case in which his org was on Trial for tax fraud. I am not keeping up with all things Trump, especially his hundreds of law suits. So yes, I made a misstatement as I was going based on memory and I clarified that. Sincerest apologies but some of us are busy and aren’t fawning fans of the guy and don’t keep up with every breath he takes worshipping the ground he walks on.

Anyway my point was not even refuted with your response, which isn’t surprising. You would prefer to live in a world that we have now, which is great, but I don’t. I want rich people to pay their fair share, and I believe this legislation is a step in the right direction based on all the available data and evidence.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Phatguysrule]

What is this new bill supposed to do? Like what problem is it supposed to solve?

 

[barfo]

My argument is misleading because you brought up an entirely different (closed) case where Trump himself was not even the defendant? That is me being misleading? An honest person would say you were the one not being forthright here. It’s pretty obvious you were wrong about the current case, the one that is actually relevant and happening right now, the one we both were clearly referring to, so you dug up something random from well over a year ago to try and save face.

If you don't like past tax fraud cases, here's a potential future one:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-dollar50-million-mystery-debt-looks-like-tax-evasion

barfo

 

[jonnyboy]

Biden is marking historic diplomatic achievements already this year. He’s had meetings with the ex German chancellor who died in 2007 and also spoke with the ex French president who’s been dead since 1996.
Also, my grandpa (also dead) would like to know where’s the Buick and why it isnt parked in the driveway.

 

[Voodoo]

Biden is marking historic diplomatic achievements already this year. He’s had meetings with the ex German chancellor who died in 2007 and also spoke with the ex French president who’s been dead since 1996.
Also, my grandpa (also dead) would like to know where’s the Buick and why it isnt parked in the driveway.

He's certainly getting old, point taken, dude's showing signs of mental decline. But he certainly has a competent cabinet with well qualified people running the government. But with that said are you okay with the alternative? Are you okay with Trump not only making the same mental lapses, while also providing some pretty horrific policy proposals? Are you familiar with them?

Here's the primary goals he's providing if he gets re-elected:

1. Give himself pardons for all federal indictments.
2. Give tax cuts to ultra wealthy while raising taxes on everyone else, just like the 2017 tax 'cuts' that are expiring for everyone else while being permanent for the ultra wealthy.
3. Firing all federal employees and refiling them not with professionals, but with political cronies which will not only do his bidding but allow for rampant corruption.
4. Remove US from NATO and continue to make ourselves more isolated which diminishes our ability to project power and influence the world for our own benefit.

None, absolutely none of this will be good for the average American, and will actually dramatically decrease our quality of life by making things more expensive, make the world far more unstable, and make the federal government even more wasteful and less useful. It's all bad, objectively it's bad unless you're a plutocrat. He wants to make the US more like Russia which means there's rampant corruption, waste, and no accountability for it with the only people truly benefitting those that are in the inner circle of the administration and those that are ultra wealthy. You have to be extremely naive, in plain denial, or fooling yourself to convince yourself that any of this is good for anyone outside of Trump, his inner circle, and the ultra wealthy.

 

[jonnyboy]

He's certainly getting old, point taken, dude's showing signs of mental decline. But he certainly has a competent cabinet with well qualified people running the government. But with that said are you okay with the alternative? Are you okay with Trump not only making the same mistakes lapses, while also providing some pretty horrific policy proposals? Are you familiar with them?

Here's the primary goals he's providing if he gets re-elected:

1. Give himself pardons for all federal indictments.
2. Give tax cuts to ultra wealthy while raising taxes on everyone else, just like the 2017 tax 'cuts' that are expiring for everyone else while being permanent for the ultra wealthy.
3. Firing all federal employees and refiling them not with professionals, but with political cronies which will not only do his bidding but allow for rampant corruption.
4. Remove US from NATO and continue to make ourselves more isolated which diminishes our ability to project power and influence the world for our own benefit.

None, absolutely none of this will be good for the average American, and will actually dramatically decrease our quality of life by making things more expensive, make the world far more unstable, and make the federal government even more wasteful and less useful. It's all bad, objectively it's bad unless you're a plutocrat. He wants to make the US more like Russia which means there's rampant corruption, waste, and no accountability for it with the only people truly benefitting those that are in the inner circle of the administration and those that are ultra wealthy. You have to be extremely naive, in plain denial, or fooling yourself to convince yourself that any of this is good for anyone outside of Trump, his inner circle, and the ultra wealthy.

There is nothing you are saying here that is either correct or would make me even consider Joe Biden over Trump as president. Trump’s gaffes are minor and generally few and far between, and not the result of obvious dementia. Comparing the two is just dishonest plain and simple. It isnt the same, not even close. Attack Trump for his personality flaws, which there are many, fine. As far as what’s good or bad for the country, you have to be kidding. The country is dogshit. We are involved in 3 wars now and counting (what you all insisted Trump would do), inflation is through the roof, interest tates through the roof, homelessness through the roof, drug overdoses through the roof because of an open border, real estate industry has been hijacked by Bidens buddies who are going to rebuild Ukraine, WW3 about to kick off and a president that is literally doing a live action weekend at bernies 24/7 while this all goes down. You couldn’t write this and make it believable.
Sorry, all the boomers sitting on their asses in McMansions telling everyone how good things “actually” are just isn’t really convincing.

 

[barfo]

There is nothing you are saying here that is either correct or would make me even consider Joe Biden over Trump as president. Trump’s gaffes are minor and generally few and far between, and not the result of obvious dementia. Comparing the two is just dishonest plain and simple. It isnt the same, not even close.

I'm not entirely clear on how Biden confusing the names of live and dead prime ministers is fundamentally different than Trump repeatedly referring to Nancy Pelosi as Nikki Haley.
If anything Trump's is worse, since Haley and Pelosi aren't two-of-a-kind.

The country is dogshit. We are involved in 3 wars now and counting (what you all insisted Trump would do), inflation is through the roof, interest tates through the roof, homelessness through the roof, drug overdoses through the roof because of an open border, real estate industry has been hijacked by Bidens buddies who are going to rebuild Ukraine, WW3 about to kick off and a president that is literally doing a live action weekend at bernies 24/7 while this all goes down. You couldn’t write this and make it believable.

Well, you just wrote it, and you certainly didn't make it believable. Most of what you wrote is nonsense, out of date, or entirely outside the control of the president.
But I admit I have no idea what you mean by the real estate industry being hijacked by Ukraine rebuilding. Please clarify.

Sorry, all the boomers sitting on their asses in McMansions telling everyone how good things “actually” are just isn’t really convincing.

It's not convincing to you because - unlike us boomers - you lack perspective. If you think inflation is 'through the roof', it's because you don't have any concept of where the roof is.

barfo

 

[Shaboid]

It's not convincing to you because - unlike us boomers - you lack perspective. If you think inflation is 'through the roof', it's because you don't have any concept of where the roof is.

barfo

He actually said "interest tates" in which I think he meant rates. Whether they are through the roof or not, there's a complex answer there.. but on to inflation...

 

[barfo]

He actually said "interest tates" in which I think he meant rates. Whether they are through the roof or not, there's a complex answer there.. but on to inflation...

He identified both inflation and interest tates as being through the roof.

As an aside, it's kind of odd that through the roof idiomatically means 'up', because most things that go through the roof go through on the way down, like a tree, or a airplane door plug.

barfo

 

[jonnyboy]

I'm not entirely clear on how Biden confusing the names of live and dead prime ministers is fundamentally different than Trump repeatedly referring to Nancy Pelosi as Nikki Haley.
If anything Trump's is worse, since Haley and Pelosi aren't two-of-a-kind.

I’m just not going to entertain claims that Biden is fine or deflections to Trump. It’s just dishonest, both sides know it and i’m not playing the game.

Well, you just wrote it, and you certainly didn't make it believable. Most of what you wrote is nonsense, out of date, or entirely outside the control of the president.
But I admit I have no idea what you mean by the real estate industry being hijacked by Ukraine rebuilding. Please clarif

BlackRock, JP Morgan and others are already being touted as the ones who will be contracted to rebuild. Zelensky gave a speech (borderline blowjob) to them just recently gushing about how he can’t wait to work with them to rebuild..

It's not convincing to you because - unlike us boomers - you lack perspective. If you think inflation is 'through the roof', it's because you don't have any concept of where the roof is.

boomer

It is quite true I lack the boomer perspective. Thank Christ.

 

[riverman]

It is quite true I lack the boomer perspective. Thank Christ.

Isn't this like Joe thanking some dead politician? I mean, this dude has been dead for a couple thousand years....Joe talked about people who died not that long ago!

 

[barfo]

I’m just not going to entertain claims that Biden is fine or deflections to Trump. It’s just dishonest, both sides know it and i’m not playing the game.

You are the one (well, one of many) who compared Biden and Trump. It's hardly a 'deflection' to comment on the exact comparison that you made.

BlackRock, JP Morgan and others are already being touted as the ones who will be contracted to rebuild. Zelensky gave a speech (borderline blowjob) to them just recently gushing about how he can’t wait to work with them to rebuild..

What's that got to do with the housing market? Would you prefer that American companies not be involved in rebuilding Ukraine? Why is it odd that Zelensky is eager to rebuild his country?

It is quite true I lack the boomer perspective. Thank Christ.

Don't get too comfortable, you'll acquire it, it will just take a few more years.

barfo

 

[Shaboid]

He identified both inflation and interest tates as being through the roof.

As an aside, it's kind of odd that through the roof idiomatically means 'up', because most things that go through the roof go through on the way down, like a tree, or a airplane door plug.

barfo

I always imagine a water heater exploding and topping out at about 200 feet, but that's just me.

 

[Phatguysrule]

There is nothing you are saying here that is either correct or would make me even consider Joe Biden over Trump as president. Trump’s gaffes are minor and generally few and far between, and not the result of obvious dementia. Comparing the two is just dishonest plain and simple. It isnt the same, not even close. Attack Trump for his personality flaws, which there are many, fine. As far as what’s good or bad for the country, you have to be kidding. The country is dogshit. We are involved in 3 wars now and counting (what you all insisted Trump would do), inflation is through the roof, interest tates through the roof, homelessness through the roof, drug overdoses through the roof because of an open border, real estate industry has been hijacked by Bidens buddies who are going to rebuild Ukraine, WW3 about to kick off and a president that is literally doing a live action weekend at bernies 24/7 while this all goes down. You couldn’t write this and make it believable.
Sorry, all the boomers sitting on their asses in McMansions telling everyone how good things “actually” are just isn’t really convincing.

I wasn't worried about Trump getting us into wars. I was worried about him weakening our allies and emboldening authoritarian and fascist movements (which he did, and contributed greatly to these wars), while weakening institutions that protect the environment and empower the poor and middle class. Which he also did.

Inflation was always going to happen. We just had 30-40 years of record low inflation. That doesn't last forever.

Further, US inflation is lower than the rest of the world, so I'm not really sure how you're holding that against any American president.

This honestly just comes off as partisan talking points.

Biden's cabinet has been FAR more stable and effective than at any time under Trump.

Biden is beholden to big business, and his policy benefits them, though. No question about it.

I do know that US democracy will almost certainly survive another 4 years of Biden.

I'm not sure US democracy would survive another 4 years of Trump. Dude is 100%, a wannabe authoritarian dictator.

 

[Voodoo]

There is nothing you are saying here that is either correct or would make me even consider Joe Biden over Trump as president. Trump’s gaffes are minor and generally few and far between, and not the result of obvious dementia. Comparing the two is just dishonest plain and simple. It isnt the same, not even close. Attack Trump for his personality flaws, which there are many, fine. As far as what’s good or bad for the country, you have to be kidding. The country is dogshit. We are involved in 3 wars now and counting (what you all insisted Trump would do), inflation is through the roof, interest tates through the roof, homelessness through the roof, drug overdoses through the roof because of an open border, real estate industry has been hijacked by Bidens buddies who are going to rebuild Ukraine, WW3 about to kick off and a president that is literally doing a live action weekend at bernies 24/7 while this all goes down. You couldn’t write this and make it believable.
Sorry, all the boomers sitting on their asses in McMansions telling everyone how good things “actually” are just isn’t really convincing.

I am not a boomer, I am 39, a millennial. You are objectively (you know that thing based on observable facts) wrong, and yet again you did not even answer any of my questions.

That said, lets review your points one at a time.

1. Trump’s gaffes are minor and generally few and far between, and not the result of obvious dementia.
   • Joe Biden was diagnosed at a young age with a stutter, and ever since he was first in politics he's well known to make slip ups and put his foot in his mouth even when he was much younger. As he's aged, his mental lapses have increased, which isn't surprising as that tends to happen as you age, especially when you already have a speech impediment. No one in Bidens immediate circle is coming out, even anonymously, saying they're concerned with Biden having dementia. Trump on the other hand has not been diagnosed with anything that is known publicly such as a speech impediment of any kind, and dating all the way back to 2021 even Trump allies secretly believed Trump may have early stages of dementia. If you're an honest person, you'd see the decline with Trump as it is happening, and it seems to only be getting worse. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/16/trump-dementia-claims-steve-bannon-25th-amendment
   • Let me also remind you that it's widely known that Trumps father Fred Trump was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
2. We are involved in 3 wars now and counting (what you all insisted Trump would do)
   • What we're doing now is funding allies and major partners throughout the world that are fighting against countries that do not share our interests. For example funding Ukraine and fighting Russia is in the US national interest no matter how you slice it, this is exactly the same play we did against the USSR with Afghanistan in the 1980's. Were you against that too? Not supporting Ukraine in this situation is tantamount to unbelievable stupidity on so many levels. Ukraine is doing all the lifting here, and is greatly degrading the capabilities of what we thought was a near peer rival, and we're not losing a single American life to do it. It's just astounding to me that anyone with a brain would be against supporting Ukraine here as on so many levels it is in our interests to do so. But then again those who watch Fox tend to have get mushy and easily malleable. As for Israel, what do you suggest? We don't support an ally after they've been attacked by terrorists? Seriously what the f___. And what third war is going on that we're supposedly involved in now? You arguments are just entirely ludicrous, it's either incredibly naïve, or intentionally dishonest when you review it beyond the surface level of "we're involved in 3 wars" talking point BS.
3. inflation is through the roof, interest tates through the roof
   
   • Inflation has been mostly tamed, it's still lingering, but it's come down dramatically. Regardless, inflation (and certainly interest rates) has to do with the Fed not who is President. The President does not meet with the board of governors of the Federal Reserve and decide on what the interest rate should be, the Fed Chairman does. And thank god for that! The only affect a President has on interest rates is who he assigns to the Fed, and Biden chose the same guy to lead it as Trump did when he was given the chance. Again your argument is either naïve or intellectually dishonest.
4. homelessness through the roof
   • Homelessness has been a problem for a long ass time, this didn't just happen in the last 3 years bro. This was an issue during the Trump administration too. This is mostly a local issue and has mostly to do with lack of housing. Most experts point to housing supply causing housing to be unaffordable that causes most people to become homeless. Housing supply mostly has to do with zoning laws (ie local laws), and large corporations buying up large supplies of housing. Both of these things have been ongoing for a long time and create artificial scarcity, which increases rent/housing prices etc, thus makes housing mostly unaffordable. The federal government could certainly help with this situation, such as passing a law restricting how many houses/homes can be owned by a single company, but man, aren't most conservatives against the government getting involved in regulating markets or something? Oh, right, this is just a talking point and once Trump is President again we'll all have rainbows, unicorns, and fart flowers in ecstasy when all the worlds problems will be solved or something.
5. drug overdoses through the roof because of an open border
   
   • What does an open border mean? Did the Border Patrol and USCIS suddenly disappear over night? In another thread were you not just complaining about the number of apprehensions along the border? How can we have both 'open borders' and increasing apprehensions, and you're outraged about both? Oh right, the argument is just simply intellectually dishonest at its core. It's just a talking point, and there's no genuine effort being made to solve anything to do with the border.
6. WW3 about to kick off and a president that is literally doing a live action weekend at bernies 24/7 while this all goes down. You couldn’t write this and make it believable.
   
   • Why is WW3 starting? Why is anyone doing a live stream while it starts for 24/7? Can you translate this into something comprehensible for someone that isn't up to speed on last nights Fox hysteria?

Your arguments are absurd if you actually think about them critically.

 

[Voodoo]

This honestly just comes off as partisan talking points.

All of this guys arguments are partisan talking points. He does not ever come in to have an honest conversation, he never answers questions and instead just attack attack attacks. Who does this remind you of?

 

[Phatguysrule]

All of this guys arguments are partisan talking points. He does not ever come in to have an honest conversation, he never answers questions and instead just attack attack attacks.

Tough to disagree...

 

[crandc]

Well stable genius Trump did say Biden would get us into World War 2.

Also that he ran against Barack Obama.