The official let's DUMP MEYERS thread (2 Viewers)

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In other words, everything Freeland did to become more useful is 180 degrees opposite of Leonar_.
 
There's no comparison. Freeland has many years more experience than Leonard. The difference isn't about who worked harder last summer. Freeland's rookie adjustment was in unlearning advanced scoring moves that work on less quick European players. Leonard's adjustment is in learning college freshman fundamentals and advancing beyond high school. No equivalence.

All these posts saying that if Freeland turned it around in one summer and became a star, so can Leonard, ignore Freeland's 7-year head start. We don't have 7 years of #15 man time available to waste on Leonard when we could try a different player in that slot every year.

We can't just dump Leonard, but we CAN play him in Idaho for extended periods. Not just 2 games at a time.
 
Natebishop3 said:
What are you basing this on? Semi-athletic? Really? LOL

[video=youtube;yKi9tKg8TOQ]

[video=youtube;Mz4ZtHprzQI]

[video=youtube;8PasyBDwN6w]
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That's probably early last season, when he could catch and make when near the basket on a fast break. He lost that by late last season. That's one reason he has regressed.

BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
The guy is awkward on the floor and very lost. What really concerns me is rebounding and defense is really not THAT hard IMO it's more effort and will, yet he shys away from everything.
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He actually steps back and covers himself when a physical play approaches. Here's how I described it.

http://sportstwo.com/threads/249834...0-PM-TUESDAY?p=3140648&viewfull=1#post3140648

Denny Crane said:
I'd be happy to see the Bulls trade Nazr for him. I can see Thibs screaming at him when he's on the court. Like he did with Asik. Turned him into a good defender.
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For years I've wanted a coach who yells. For example, Aldridge would then play like a big man.
 
The biggest problem is his defense. Playing him with Aldridge is not a good idea because they're our worst big-men on defense and Aldridge plays many minutes because he's superior offensively. I wouldn't mind him as Aldridge's backup but if Freeland/Lopez are able to play just 18 minutes combined like against Houston we're in trouble defensively.
 
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I would send him to Boise and also send a coach to work with him only. And I would also find a half dozen athletic ex-college players and bring them down there. Then I would work with him (defensively only) in game situations, over and over and over and over. He has the athleticism and it's possible he is hesitant and slow to adjust because he just does not have any basketball instincts. Maybe with enough repetitions he could reach a point where he didn't need to think. For me, it would be worth a try.

But I do agree with some posters that there may just be something missing in his personality and it all might be for naught. But why not try?
 
Thing about sending him to Boise, I doubt he'd learn anything more there than he would in Portland.

Not saying the team shouldn't take advantage of the team (I still say the NBA needs a true farm system set up. More like baseball, but not so full of cheating).

Add an NBA run NBDL draft (like, Portland picks who they want for the NBDL team) and stock those teams with a few players, etc. Trades among NBA teams could include those picks, or whatever.

Of course the dynamics of MLB farm system and how the younger players are groomed is completely different then the NBA (the # of positions, and teams is why too). It's doubtful that a superstar or serviceable player will ever get his start in the NBDL, whereas it's not uncommon for it to happen in MLB.

The NBA could totally do something to fix that (by making it a REAL farm league) but the players union would have nothing to do with that.
 
Sinobas said:
Being 7 foot doesn't make you a center. Besides, Meyer's standing reach and wingspan are more typical of NBA PFs than centers, because he has a long neck and average arms. If Channing Frye grew 1 inch, he wouldn't be a center either.
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And there seem to be a lot of posters here who are in love with Channing Frye.

They need to start looking at Meyers as a PF. That's his best shot to amount to JACK SQUAT in the NBA. And when Joel get's back off to D-League with him! Meyers is a white Channing Frye.
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At this point, it seems you might be right. It makes more sense to play someone to there strengths rather than complain they aren't someone they aren't. He can absolutely score facing the basket. And if he develops more post acumen over time, even better. For now, Meyers is more Frye/Aldridge than Hibbert/Howard.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I don't want to go back and do any atomic bumps, but I seem to recall last year about this time that the BoardThink consensus was that Freeland not only wasn't worth his draft position or contract, but his roster spot. I seem to recall that people were asking me what the cap hit would be if we just released him and spread his cap hit over the next 3 years. I remember him not getting minutes that were going to Jared Jeffries. 8 months later, he's the best big off the bench that we have. His transformation (if you want to call it that) occurred at 26.

ToB did a great job outlining big men who've put it together. True, there are the Olowakandis and Araujos of the world, but releasing him would not be, uh, smart. Adding him as a filler to get a couple of bucks of cap room wouldn't matter b/c we're not close to being under the cap this summer anyway, and will still only have MLE available (unless you're REALLY looking for a 2M trade exception). Which big are you going to get back in a trade who can play the position better than Meyers, and if he could, why would his old team trade him?

I'm not pinning my hopes on the kid, but send him to Boise with Crabbe for a few months and see what happens.
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BTW when (or has) does the NBDL begin?

I agree with sending him to Boise to get badly needed minutes and see if he can improve.
 
What I would like to see is Leonard proving me wrong. I would love to feel stupid for ever thinking he was a waste of a player. I want to made held accountable for ever doubting the sheer awesomeness of Leonard!
 
magnifier661 said:
What I would like to see is Leonard proving me wrong. I would love to feel stupid for ever thinking he was a waste of a player. I want to made held accountable for ever doubting the sheer awesomeness of Leonard!
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me too! just think it highly unlikely
 
Blazinaway said:
me too! just think it highly unlikely
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There is absolutely zero benefit to my homerism to be a player hater (usually what is labeled for one that constantly gripes about a player). If Leonard shows promise and progress, then there is nothing to hate on. simple as that!
 
magnifier661 said:
There is absolutely zero benefit to my homerism to be a player hater (usually what is labeled for one that constantly gripes about a player). If Leonard shows promise and progress, then there is nothing to hate on. simple as that!
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So, the reason you are hard on Leonard is that he's a full mags homer buzz kill. I get that. :)
 
magnifier661 said:
There is absolutely zero benefit to my homerism to be a player hater (usually what is labeled for one that constantly gripes about a player). If Leonard shows promise and progress, then there is nothing to hate on. simple as that!
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He has to be able to get on the court to show promise and progress.
 
Just because I'd want somebody to let me know if I messed it up (beyond a simple typo) it's "physique."
 
Ha.

I'm just trying to remember the last 21 year old center to have an impact on a team aside from Shaq. (or start their career in Orlando.)
 
Strenuus said:
Ha.

I'm just trying to remember the last 21 year old center to have an impact on a team aside from Shaq. (or start their career in Orlando.)
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Andrew Bynum was very good for the Lakers at 21, and Dwight Howard was an All-Star by 21.

Andre Drummond is playing well for Detroit, although his PER is the same as Leonard's (16.5).
 
Strenuus said:
Ha.

I'm just trying to remember the last 21 year old center to have an impact on a team aside from Shaq. (or start their career in Orlando.)
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Here is a list of every true center, aged 21 or younger, by season, sorted by PER since the 1990-91 season who played in at least 42 games (over 50%) for their team in any given season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...at=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

Looking at this list, and the seasons by what turned out to be solid NBA centers, I have to laugh at anyone who wants to just dump Leonard at this point.
 
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Yoda_of_the_MODA said:
Here is a list of every true center, aged 21 or younger, by season, sorted by PER since the 1990-91 season who played in at least 42 games (over 50%) for their team in any given season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...at=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

Looking at this list, and the seasons by what turned out to be solid NBA centers, I have to laugh at anyone who wants to just dump Leonard at this point.
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Exactly. That's my whole point. There are very very few that had any impact at 21. It's just silly.

Good find!
 
The criticism isn't over whether he can't start or have an impact. It's over his actual regression from a year ago, his lack of all athletic instincts, and his crouching in fear or looking away to shield his eyes when action happens near him.

Impact is not the issue.
 
BNM is the voice of reason.
 
Babbitt and Nolan Smith were a lot better than Leonard so far. Their physical limitations don't compare to Leonard's overt fear to inject himself into most playing situations.

Denny Crane said:
BNM is the voice of reason.
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If stats were all that mattered, there would be no economics arguments.
 
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