Toronto Raptors Dame trade ideas and rumors

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BIG Q said:
No, my comparison was dead on, and you confirmed it. Re-read my post you quoted. Nothing but Dame superlatives in it.
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A ridiculous comparison by Le Batard. I was just agreeing with what you said.
 
BIG Q said:
I will concede this point. That has always been in the back of my mind. Memphis wanted him badly. Much of why I am so high on him.
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Memphis has picks... but that roster doesn't appeal much to me.
 
AmirIcon said:
The amount of hypotheticals you have to swallow to end up with a better outcome than Ayton and OG is overwhelming. You can always make tweaks as you go along. You're not expected to keep all these players forever. Get good and then make tweaks along the way.

You have a better shot with that than expecting to turn late 1st round picks into gold. And you get Grady? I'm for it. You're giving Scoot a team to play with from the get go.
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Like Dame had
 
Natebishop3 said:
Rumors were that there were offers of multiple picks for OG before the trade deadline. I don't know what his value is right now.
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Masai has an inflated sense of value for his players. Recall he apparently wanted Shaedon/Hart/Nas for OG the year prior. He also floated an asking price of 3 firsts for him last deadline.

If that were truly his value, deal woulda been done.
 
illmatic99 said:
Masai has an inflated sense of value for his players. Recall he apparently wanted Shaedon/Hart/Nas for OG the year prior. He also floated an asking price of 3 firsts for him last deadline.

If that were truly his value, deal woulda been done.
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There was rumors that Memphis offered a shit ton of picks for OG at the deadline. Can't find anything concrete on how many exactly. One rumor was that they offered four. I doubt that. But all the reports say "multiple picks."
 
illmatic99 said:
A 26 yr old wing who is borderline all-nba defense while shooting 38% from 3 on high volume. How sad is that.
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it could be pretty damn sad if OG is the main asset Portland gets while all the other assets are minor

You outlined the positives. But there are other ways to view him as the centerpiece than that limited context:

* Donovan Mitchell was traded for Lauri Markannen, Colin Sexton, Ochai Agbaji, three unprotected first round picks, an unprotected swap, and a conditional swap

* Kevin Durant was traded for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, four unprotected 1st round picks; an unprotected swap, and two 2nd round picks

* OKC traded PG13 for SGA, Gallinari, four unprotected first round picks, and two swaps

* Gobert was traded for Walter Kessler , Jared Vanderbilt, Malik Beasely, Patrick Beverly, three unprotected 1sts, a top-5 protected swap, and a conditional swap

* Anunoby is on an expiring contract meaning he can walk next summer, meaning his value is significantly less than a 'normal' borderline all-NBA defender who shoots the 3 well.

* Anunoby has a career PER of 13.2 when the NBA average is 15.0. He has a career FTRate of .179 which is not much better than CJ's career rate; OG doesn't get to the line. He has a career rebound rate of 8.3%. Mo Harkless was an average rebounder and his rate was 8.6%. OG was 107th out of 190 qualified NBA players in rebound rate last year at 7.9%. Dame was at 7.6%. And he was 153rd out of 190 in assist rate. OG's career winshare/48 is .102 when the NBA average is .100. His career BPM is 0.2 when the NBA average is 0.0

now, maybe a new team and a new role will see his game expand. That happens sometimes. But he is a 25 year old veteran who will be entering his 7th season. His upside is likely limited

again, he'll only be a part of the return so if he is coming to Portland we'll need to see what else is coming with him to gauge the trade. But if there isn't much else (like Boucher, Young & a lottery-protected first 5 years from now), yeah, that would be sad
 
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It was floated yesterday but the Indy deal with PHX/TOR makes a ton of sense.

We get Ayton + Dick + 2 firsts from Indy + 2 firsts from TOR.

TOR gets Dame and Buddy.

Indy gets OG and Trent.

PHX gets Nurk, McConnell, and Thad.
 
BonesJones said:
Of course not, but you could make the argument that they may have been able to build the contender that they never could if they went that route. Also, Aldridge, Matthews and Batum were all here already and an established part of a core. We were adding a 22-year old Damian Lillard to that. Scoot is 19. We have more time with Scoot.

Where did that get Dame? He spent 11 years in Portland and never contended, mostly due to Neil Olshey's incompetence but also a lack of assets to be able to surround Dame with meaningful pieces. If you think a core of Scoot, Sharpe, OG, Grant and Ayton contends in a couple years, I get it. But to me, that feels more likely to be a team that's good enough to win a playoff series but not good enough to win it all. I'd rather take more time to make sure we build a team or have the assets that result in a contender.
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Take it one step at a time like Denver did. Barely miss playoffs then lose in second round, then lose in WCF, then Finals. We don’t have to go from lottery to champions. And we had the 3rd seed twice with Dame. 3 seed is contending.
 
illmatic99 said:
It was floated yesterday but the Indy deal with PHX/TOR makes a ton of sense.

We get Ayton + Dick + 2 firsts from Indy + 2 firsts from TOR.

TOR gets Dame and Buddy.

Indy gets OG and Trent.

PHX gets Nurk, McConnell, and Thad.
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Too much money coming to Indy in that. Who else do they include?
 
Something like this? I would really want Walker from Indy so we can move Grant at the deadline.

upload_2023-9-26_9-44-7.png
 
illmatic99 said:
It was floated yesterday but the Indy deal with PHX/TOR makes a ton of sense.

We get Ayton + Dick + 2 firsts from Indy + 2 firsts from TOR.

TOR gets Dame and Buddy.

Indy gets OG and Trent.

PHX gets Nurk, McConnell, and Thad.
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depending on protections and when those picks are, that's really not bad. Does the trade work in the CBA I'd wonder?
 
wizenheimer said:
depending on protections and when those picks are, that's really not bad. Does the trade work in the CBA I'd wonder?
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Check out my trade. His proposal doesn't quite work because of how much money is going to Indy so I had to move Theis as well.
 
illmatic99 said:
It was floated yesterday but the Indy deal with PHX/TOR makes a ton of sense.

We get Ayton + Dick + 2 firsts from Indy + 2 firsts from TOR.

TOR gets Dame and Buddy.

Indy gets OG and Trent.

PHX gets Nurk, McConnell, and Thad.
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In my book Ayton and Nurk aren't that far apart and almost cancel each other out. So for Damian Lillard we get Dick/picks (see what I did there)? Fuck that. I'd rather just keep him at that point.
 
illmatic99 said:
It was floated yesterday but the Indy deal with PHX/TOR makes a ton of sense.

We get Ayton + Dick + 2 firsts from Indy + 2 firsts from TOR.

TOR gets Dame and Buddy.

Indy gets OG and Trent.

PHX gets Nurk, McConnell, and Thad.
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I don't know the salaries well enough (but assume that you do) to know if that works for Phoenix, and I could see Indiana only throwing in a single pick if they are also giving up Hield and O'Connell, but I would still do it from Portland's perspective. Heck, I'd argue it's a touch too good for Toronto as I like Hield a lot more than Trent (but that may be the only way Masai pulls the trigger). But for Portland, Ayton, Dick, and three future picks from teams that aren't free agent destinations works for me.
 
PCmor7 said:
Dame's teams made the playoffs in eight of his first nine years. That established core you point to when Dame got here won 28 games the season before he arrived and was in the lottery, won 33 games in Dame's first year and then was in the conference semifinals.

Of course, Dame also had a team in the conference finals that squandered leads in what, three of the four games against a dynastic team? I get the need to revise history to suit your narrative, but your post comes off like Dame was on a perpetual loser. He was not. He was on a good team that never was able to catch up to better teams, and one could argue the Blazers squandered good resources on meh returns in a panic to fit Dame's window, which, BTW, doesn't seem to be closing as fast as people that applauded the moves to get RoCo and Nance.

One other thing about contenders. Exactly how many teams are really contenders out there every year?

In Dame's career, eight different teams have won NBA titles. Twelve different teams have played in the finals. Three of those eight winners have been LeBron teams. One of the others -- which won four times -- was Steph/Klay/Draymond/Kerr with Durant a couple of years.

One team built around one of the five best players in the history of the game. The other a dynasty built around guys that were picked seventh, 11th and 35th.

Two of those other champion teams were built around homegrown talent that was drafted 15th and 41st who are two of the five best players in the NBA.

If your standard for contention is being able to get to the finals, the Blazers are far from alone in not contending -- the number of teams that are truly contenders are minuscule. If your standard for contention is being able to win playoff series, the Blazers in Dame's career are -- they made the playoffs eight straight years before he basically missed a season with core injury surgery.

I get so tired of these double standards and disingenuous arguments to act like Dame was in such a bad situation in Portland that he might as well have been the little kid begging for the dish of gruel.
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Yep. Did Brooklyn “contend” with KD and Kyrie? They only won one playoff series together but they were considered the favorites for a couple years there.
 
I would almost prefer OG than Ayton. I know DA could really blossom into what he was supposed to be but this team doesn't need a guy with a personality problem.
 
Graduate32 said:
I don't know the salaries well enough (but assume that you do) to know if that works for Phoenix, and I could see Indiana only throwing in a single pick if they are also giving up Hield and O'Connell, but I would still do it from Portland's perspective. Heck, I'd argue it's a touch too good for Toronto as I like Hield a lot more than Trent (but that may be the only way Masai pulls the trigger). But for Portland, Ayton, Dick, and three future picks from teams that aren't free agent destinations works for me.
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I would think of OG as the best non- Dame player in that deal. Hence the 2 picks.
 
illmatic99 said:
I would think of OG as the best non- Dame player in that deal. Hence the 2 picks.
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I'm not sure if I'd rather immediately flip him, or wait and see how he does with the team before trading him at the deadline?
 
wizenheimer said:
I kind of wish you'd stop posting shit from Miami talking heads
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LeBatard is the worst, too.

I still remember him during Ricky Williams' first retirement. He tried to play it into a Ricky Williams-hated-Dave Wannstedt angle, then, every time some new info came out that eroded that, he moved his reason to something out. He ended up saying Williams quit because he wanted to spend more time with his kid, which got torpedoed when it turned out Williams actually had moved by himself to Tibet and had been there for a couple of months smoking weed.

That LeBatard actually somehow fell upward professionally after this just goes to show the state of current sports journalism.
 
noknobs said:
In my book Ayton and Nurk aren't that far apart and almost cancel each other out. So for Damian Lillard we get Dick/picks (see what I did there)? Fuck that. I'd rather just keep him at that point.
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I was curious so I made a comparison of them. Started with Nurkic's 1st year as a starter an Portland:

upload_2023-9-26_10-14-52.png

they are close to even in PER; Ayton is a more efficient shooter, mainly because of Nurk's poor shooting at the rim. Nurkic is a better rebounder and passer. And he's a better defender. Ayton has better winshare numbers but he's played on teams that have generated a lot more wins so that skew is evident. Nurkic has a better impact if you gauge by BPM

personally, I think Ayton has become pretty overrated in this forum. He may have more baggage than Nurkic and he costs twice as much
 
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