Politics Trump just announced he will not repeal Obamacare

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blue32 said:
And you don't think this wouldnt happen in a single payer system? It would, and it would directly attribute to a rise in taxes to cover the system.

It's a big fucking scam. Regardless of what system we have.
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Not to mention that Big Pharma would actually get kickbacks OR charge the government more for their products. Which would be passed down to tax payers.
 
blue32 said:
And you don't think this wouldnt happen in a single payer system? It would, and it would directly attribute to a rise in taxes to cover the system.

It's a big fucking scam. Regardless of what system we have.
Click to expand...

Why does America pay so much more than every other country? With single payer we can negotiate lower drug costs. Trump can flex his negotiation skills and get this done, right?
 
Jade Falcon said:
Not to mention that Big Pharma would actually get kickbacks OR charge the government more for their products. Which would be passed down to tax payers.
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Agreed.

What we really need is a competitive market for medicine and medical procedures, to drive cost down. Not give a security blanket to these people to continue to price gouge.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
Yes, some people. The sick and unfortunate will always exist. Shouldn't we still care for them, as Americans? I mean the senate, house, and soon to be Supreme Court is rife with christians, so wwjd?
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Either fix Medicaid, or fix Obamacare. Let people choose their own insurance, don't drop people's insurance coverage that they already have, let them keep their doctors (including specialists), and eliminate the tax penalty.

People would be FAR more willing to have that by choice than forcing it on them as a government list of requirements.
 
blue32 said:
Agreed.

What we really need is a competitive market for medicine and medical procedures, to drive cost down. Not give a security blanket to these people to continue to price gouge.
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This is exactly what needs to be addressed and affordable clinics should be accessable to anyone living here...the more clinics...the more jobs...the less travel and smaller the facility, the lower overhead...
 
blue32 said:
And you don't think this wouldnt happen in a single payer system? It would, and it would directly attribute to a rise in taxes to cover the system.

It's a big fucking scam. Regardless of what system we have.
Click to expand...

Nope. Pay better attention. Medicare/Medicaid (thank you idiot corporate shills. Dems and Repubs) cannot negotiate drug prices.

That's the reason my son's inhaler is 3.50 in Canada. Here? $157.87.

Now, after you've gotten that $157...

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED THAT 87 CENTS....
If our existing single payer programs could negotiate prices would drop. BUT, what should happen, is we should allow drug importation from Canada. Would this cause us to import them from Canada? No. It would FORCE these pharmaceutical companies to reprice their drugs.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
Yes, some people. The sick and unfortunate will always exist. Shouldn't we still care for them, as Americans? I mean the senate, house, and soon to be Supreme Court is rife with christians, so wwjd?
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We pay for their healthcare too. With our tax dollars.
 
I was amazed at how much the bill for a prosthetic limb was for my vet buddy....they made 4 for him before they got one that fit.....total cost to the govt...over 250k.........I saw all 4 versions and I don't know where they come up with those costs.....
 
Jade Falcon said:
Not to mention that Big Pharma would actually get kickbacks OR charge the government more for their products. Which would be passed down to tax payers.
Click to expand...

blue32 said:
Agreed.

What we really need is a competitive market for medicine and medical procedures, to drive cost down. Not give a security blanket to these people to continue to price gouge.
Click to expand...

Spoken like folk who know nothing about single payer. I explained this above:

dviss1 said:
Nope. Pay better attention. Medicare/Medicaid (thank you idiot corporate shills. Dems and Repubs) cannot negotiate drug prices.

That's the reason my son's inhaler is 3.50 in Canada. Here? $157.87.

Now, after you've gotten that $157...

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED THAT 87 CENTS....

If our existing single payer programs could negotiate prices would drop. BUT, what should happen, is we should allow drug importation from Canada. Would this cause us to import them from Canada? No. It would FORCE these pharmaceutical companies to reprice their drugs.
Click to expand...
 
riverman said:
So here's a thought....make a pepsi cost more than a bottle of scotch....tax the hell out of it...same with Cheetos...they should cost more than caviar...
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or detach it all, and allow the fatty to eat whatever he wants but there is no such thing as insurance, you pay for your procedures out of your own pocket, and you can shop clinics. Prices will drop as insurance security blanket is no more.
 
dviss1 said:
Haha. Republicans hate this.
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Of course we do, because all taxes do are oppress people. You democrats want to make a god damned law and tax out of everything your moral high ground sees fit. 'the fuck outta here with that shit.


Edit: which is actually quite ironic, since they pander to the poor and minorities. You'd think they'd want to save them a buck or two. Not tax them into oblivion.
 
blue32 said:
Of course we do, because all taxes do are oppress people. You democrats want to make a god damned law and tax out of everything your moral high ground sees fit. 'the fuck outta here with that shit.


Edit: which is actually quite ironic, since they pander to the poor and minorities. You'd think they'd want to save them a buck or two. Not tax them into oblivion.
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I'm not a democrat. I'm Independent.
 
blue32 said:
or detach it all, and allow the fatty to eat whatever he wants but there is no such thing as insurance, you pay for your procedures out of your own pocket, and you can shop clinics. Prices will drop as insurance security blanket is no more.
Click to expand...

Fallacy. You explained above that you have no clue of why premiums are rising yet you have the answer to stop them? Jesus Christ...
 
dviss1 said:
Nope. Pay better attention. Medicare/Medicaid (thank you idiot corporate shills. Dems and Repubs) cannot negotiate drug prices.

That's the reason my son's inhaler is 3.50 in Canada. Here? $157.87.

Now, after you've gotten that $157...

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED THAT 87 CENTS....
If our existing single payer programs could negotiate prices would drop. BUT, what should happen, is we should allow drug importation from Canada. Would this cause us to import them from Canada? No. It would FORCE these pharmaceutical companies to reprice their drugs.
Click to expand...
Because the inhaler cost 1.5787 per unit, don't think they don't get the price known to the smallest unit.

So, multiply that times 100 and what do you get?

If they just said 150 bucks it would actually sound made up. 157.87 sounds precise.
 
There is definitely truth here. I've had a weight problem all my life, smoked off and on for 40+ years, drank far more than I should have, ate way, way too much garbage food and got little physical activity (outside my job). And when I retired 3 years ago I really started to slide, despite heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 Diabetes and recurrent gout. It wasn't until I started having knee problems and facing potential knee replacement (along with hitting my 60's) that I have started to take my health seriously. I quit smoking for good, started exercising more, cut my drinking to almost nothing and started really watching what I eat, especially in terms of sugar and carbs (still a serious daily struggle). In the past year I have dropped some weight, gotten fitter, lowered my BP to the point I'm almost entirely off BP meds and I'm am within a whisker of going off diabetes meds (which will likely happen in the next 3 months). And I may be able to keep knee replacement at bay for the rest of my life. Still working on that 4 orgasm thing though....Other than age associated aches and pains I feel the best I have in years. All the preventative medicine in the world doesn't do shit if we don't make an effort to take care of ourselves and too many people have the same outlook I used to have, namely "I'll eat, drink smoke and sit on my ass all I want because doctors and medicines will save me". I think we owe it to ourselves to help those who genuinely can't help themselves, but people who can help themselves but won't should be left to sink or swim.....

Two things I don't agree with as far as the ACA goes are;

Requiring people to have health care. If they don't want it, so be it. They're on their own.

Requiring parents to provide insurance for their 26 year old "children". These are adults who should be treated as such. I can understand if the kid is living at home and is a full time student under the age 23. Otherwise, I call bullshit.
 
All along, Republicans proposed three things:

1) Ability to buy across state lines
2) Eliminate pre-existing conditions discrimination
3) Kids up to 26 can be on the parents' policy

Repeal and replace with that. Perfect.
 
blue32 said:
Of course we do, because all taxes do are oppress people. You democrats want to make a god damned law and tax out of everything your moral high ground sees fit. 'the fuck outta here with that shit.


Edit: which is actually quite ironic, since they pander to the poor and minorities. You'd think they'd want to save them a buck or two. Not tax them into oblivion.
Click to expand...
yeah...cigarettes and alchohol are taxed like crazy...and we all know poor folk don't smoke or drink.......sales tax protects the poor from insane income tax if it's done right....just in case you don't have a clue about how much money we in Oregon lose from tourist dollars on sales......sure...let's just tax anyone who smokes, drinks, gambles or owns property but don't you dare fuck with our sodas and Cheetos!
 
dviss1 said:
Nope. Pay better attention. Medicare/Medicaid (thank you idiot corporate shills. Dems and Repubs) cannot negotiate drug prices.

That's the reason my son's inhaler is 3.50 in Canada. Here? $157.87.

Now, after you've gotten that $157...

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED THAT 87 CENTS....
If our existing single payer programs could negotiate prices would drop. BUT, what should happen, is we should allow drug importation from Canada. Would this cause us to import them from Canada? No. It would FORCE these pharmaceutical companies to reprice their drugs.
Click to expand...
What king of inhaler is he using? I have horrible asthma myself and am dumbfounded how expensive maintenance inhalers cost too.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
There is definitely truth here. I've had a weight problem all my life, smoked off and on for 40+ years, drank far more than I should have, ate way, way too much garbage food and got little physical activity (outside my job). And when I retired 3 years ago I really started to slide, despite heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 Diabetes and recurrent gout. It wasn't until I started having knee problems and facing potential knee replacement (along with hitting my 60's) that I have started to take my health seriously. I quit smoking for good, started exercising more, cut my drinking to almost nothing and started really watching what I eat, especially in terms of sugar and carbs (still a serious daily struggle). In the past year I have dropped some weight, gotten fitter, lowered my BP to the point I'm almost entirely off BP meds and I'm am within a whisker of going off diabetes meds (which will likely happen in the next 3 months). And I may be able to keep knee replacement at bay for the rest of my life. Still working on that 4 orgasm thing though....Other than age associated aches and pains I feel the best I have in years. All the preventative medicine in the world doesn't do shit if we don't make an effort to take care of ourselves and too many people have the same outlook I used to have, namely "I'll eat, drink smoke and sit on my ass all I want because doctors and medicines will save me". I think we owe it to ourselves to help those who genuinely can't help themselves, but people who can help themselves but won't should be left to sink or swim.....

Two things I don't agree with as far as the ACA goes are;

Requiring people to have health care. If they don't want it, so be it. They're on their own.

Requiring parents to provide insurance for their 26 year old "children". These are adults who should be treated as such. I can understand if the kid is living at home and is a full time student under the age 23. Otherwise, I call bullshit.
Click to expand...

First, congrats on the steps you've taken to improve your health. Great decision. I agree that our healthcare costs as a country would be dramatically reduced if more people would make similar decisions.

Regarding the mandate to buy health insurance, the Republicans have said that they want to eliminate that, but I don't see how it can work. Without younger and healthier people paying into the system, I don's see how we can afford to keep pre-existing conditions waiver provisions. Trump recently said he wants to maintain that going forward.

Your second point about keeping kids on the policy until 26, isn't that optional rather than a requirement? I don't think you have to carry them on your insurance unless you want to, but I may be wrong.
 
dviss1 said:
Fallacy. You explained above that you have no clue of why premiums are rising yet you have the answer to stop them? Jesus Christ...
Click to expand...

I never said that. I asked for someone's opinions on why they thought the premiums are rising. Quit it.
 
This is hilarious, Trump is just going to keep Obamacare but make a big show about changing some meaningless features. The republicans will love it and Trump will now call it Trumpcare. Its going to be the best insurance plan in the world, there will be no better plans, it will be an amazingly bigly success. Thanks Trump.
 
riverman said:
yeah...cigarettes and alchohol are taxed like crazy...and we all know poor folk don't smoke or drink.......sales tax protects the poor from insane income tax if it's done right....just in case you don't have a clue about how much money we in Oregon lose from tourist dollars on sales......sure...let's just tax anyone who smokes, drinks, gambles or owns property but don't you dare fuck with our sodas and Cheetos!
Click to expand...

I am not sure what you're trying to insinuate here. I hate taxes of all kinds, and most democrats LOVE them bc they love to control people through their moral high ground.

The cheetos and soda example I posted above, was to show that most Americans do not give a fuck about their health, obviously, which is why also cigs and alcohol are purchased.

Healthcare shouldn't be mandatory, it shouldn't be single payer (since the healthy do not outrank the sick and end up getting ass raped by the government) and we sure as shit should stop taxing our damn citizens to death. Which blows my mind when poor people vote democrat. It's like they continually want to be fucking poor.
 
donkiez said:
This is hilarious, Trump is just going to keep Obamacare but make a big show about changing some meaningless features. The republicans will love it and Trump will now call it Trumpcare. Its going to be the best insurance plan in the world, there will be no better plans, it will be an amazingly bigly success. Thanks Trump.
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He has no idea what he's doing.
 
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