Will Blazers protest the anthem this year?

[PtldPlatypus]

You did not reply to my post though.

You're right, I didn't, because I felt it was very strawman-ish. But since you're asking.

When the NFL includes "flag decorum" in their contracts, it becomes part of their job. If standing for the flag was optional, that would be a different story, but it's not. Maris spoke about this in one of his posts.

So if it's part of their contract, and they have to do it or they're in breach of contract and can be fined/suspended, then I think it's exactly like what that other woman did.

Again, the point isn't whether or not standing for the anthem is required by their job; my point/differentiation is that they're not actually protesting the act of standing for the anthem. Their protest is about racial inequality and injustice. Protesting the anthem is simply the vehicle they're employing in order to raise consciousness/attract attention. They haven't indicated that they have any problem with the action they're choosing not to carry out. As opposed to Davis, who refused to sign certificates because the it was the act itself of signing them with which she disagreed.

HOWEVER, I would say that what she did was worse because that was a huge part of what her job description was, but NFL players are paid to play football. So forcing players to do something that's against their personal beliefs and has nothing to do with their job description is, in my opinion, worse.

Edit - also I'll add that Kim Davis was elected. She works for the people. That's not a private organization.

Again, I'm not debating the merits of the protest, simply explaining why it is not hypocritical to support one occurring at the workplace and not the other. One is protesting the job itself; the other is simply using the job as a platform for a protest unrelated to the job. They are absolutely apples and oranges situations.

 

[Jade Falcon]

The more I think about it, the more this anthem protest seems just plain wrong. Everyone in the stands--and all the Blazer coaches-- stand and face the flag when the national anthem is played, but the players get in a circle with their heads down? Really?? The millionaires can disrespect the flag, while the average Joe in the stands who is struggling to support a family can stand there with his hand over his heart? Really??

I don't care what a player does on his own time, but when he's representing the city of a Portland and the state of Oregon shouldn't he have to respect the American flag just like all the fans?? In other words, the people who are paying for those tickets? And please tell me why Meyers Leonard, who makes $10 million a year, has a right to protest the national anthem? Shouldn't he be kissing the ground he stands on for living in a country where a stiff like him can make incredible amounts of money???

Shouldn't ALL of the Blazers be ecstatic about their great fortune to live in a country that makes them rich beyond their wildest dreams, just for playing a game they love and getting 4 months off every year?

Maybe some of you think it doesn't matter. Maybe you think it's all about freedom, and self-expression, and respecting the socio-economic plight of minorities, but I've known plenty of minorities--blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Indians--who love this country, and who fought to get here, and don't want to live anywhere else. They came here because they knew it was infinitely better than their own country, and because they had a better chance for a better life here than anywhere else. It's the same reason people from all over the world have been trying to come here for over 200 years.

Anyone else feel the same way? Anyone else think that players who represent us--and are supported by us--should respect the average fan who loves his country and loves the national anthem and who feels that despite its flaws this is a pretty great country, and that it stands for something pretty great?

I really hope they don't protest. To me, it just seems very juvenile. The best way that you can effect change is to go out into the community and work with them, which is exactly what Dame and other Blazers have done. Organize safe projects for children and minorities to engage in that is positive and makes a real difference in their lives. Because that is what they ultimately want: someone to say "you matter, and we care about you". They don't want a fucking protest against the flag or national anthem....that's a hollow protest.

But ultimately, I watch sports for SPORTS. It's 2 hours out of my week that I get to focus on something other than social issues and politics. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

To protest what exactly? That 94% of those incarcerated that are men? The per capita rate of police murder that is higher for the mentally ill than black men? The seven black female police shooting deaths vs. the 300 white male police shooting deaths since 2015? Poverty that effects people of all races? I remember as a poor white 10-year-old contemplating writing Clyde Drexler and asking him for money to help out my mom. Intersectional theory wasn't being taught in elementary school back then, so I didn't realize my privilege at the time. Luckily, I didn't embarrass myself by asking for that help. That would've been extremely tacky and racist.

I don't give a fuck about the flag. I hate their cause because at its core it's racist and disingenuous. When you make police violence, incarceration, and sentencing solely a race issue when there is greater disparity correlated to gender and mental health then it becomes a racist movement. I've been downvoted to hell for making this argument elsewhere, but no one has given me a satisfactory explanation for why despite being more correlated with discrimination, mental health and gender aren't considered at least at the same level as race is. As far as I can tell, no one is protesting the 66% longer sentences that men get for the same crime as women. They protest because black men are being sentenced longer than white men, despite that gap not being nearly as big as the gender gap. The same thing happens with the mentally ill in police shootings, only this time, the mentally ill are shot and killed by police at a higher per capita rate than blacks are. It's only the race angle that plays, otherwise these spoiled athletes don't give a fuck about these problems.

"Yeah, but what about..."

This whole "don't protest X because Y is a bigger problem" is bullshit. It's only used to silence.

They're not protesting what you want them to protest because they're not on the same hella woke MRA forums as you are. Shame, really.

 

[Natebishop3]

Okay, protesting the national anthem is one thing, but THIS is not cool. Taps is a song about respecting the dead, and this was at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Really really really uncool.

 

[Natebishop3]

Again, the point isn't whether or not standing for the anthem is required by their job; my point/differentiation is that they're not actually protesting the act of standing for the anthem. Their protest is about racial inequality and injustice. Protesting the anthem is simply the vehicle they're employing in order to raise consciousness/attract attention. They haven't indicated that they have any problem with the action they're choosing not to carry out. As opposed to Davis, who refused to sign certificates because the it was the act itself of signing them with which she disagreed.

But they're choosing not to stand for the anthem because they don't want to show their support for a country that turns its back on minorities. There's a reason why they're doing it during the national anthem.

The point of standing for the anthem is to respect the anthem.

If Kim Davis was unwilling to put her stamp of approval on a marriage certificate because it's against her beliefs, then I think an argument can be made that standing for the anthem can be seen as putting your stamp of approval on this country. They feel like the country ignores them, so they're not willing to show it the respect that they feel is not being returned.

Why do you personally stand for the anthem?

 

[Jade Falcon]

Okay, protesting the national anthem is one thing, but THIS is not cool. Taps is a song about respecting the dead, and this was at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Really really really uncool.

Wow. Yeah, that is REALLY fucked up. I visited the TOTU in May of 2005, and it was one of the most humbling experiences I've ever had.

I took this picture (among many others), and it remains my desktop picture to this day:


I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I knelt during the changing of the guard.

 

[Jade Falcon]

But they're choosing not to stand for the anthem because they don't want to show their support for a country that turns its back on minorities. There's a reason why they're doing it during the national anthem.

The point of standing for the anthem is to respect the anthem.

If Kim Davis was unwilling to put her stamp of approval on a marriage certificate because it's against her beliefs, then I think an argument can be made that standing for the anthem can be seen as putting your stamp of approval on this country. They feel like the country ignores them, so they're not willing to show it the respect that they feel is not being returned.

Why do you personally stand for the anthem?

This country doesn't ignore them. Politicians do. And the media uses them as jokes and punchlines to sell stories.

 

[Natebishop3]

This country doesn't ignore them. Politicians do. And the media uses them as jokes and punchlines to sell stories.

Regardless, that's what their reasoning is.

I think the important thing is to analyze the purpose of the national anthem and the reason why we stand and remove our hat (if we're wearing one.) To understand the purpose of the anthem is to understand why someone might not be willing to stand for it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But they're choosing not to stand for the anthem because they don't want to show their support for a country that turns its back on minorities. There's a reason why they're doing it during the national anthem.

The point of standing for the anthem is to respect the anthem.

If Kim Davis was unwilling to put her stamp of approval on a marriage certificate because it's against her beliefs, then I think an argument can be made that standing for the anthem can be seen as putting your stamp of approval on this country. They feel like the country ignores them, so they're not willing to show it the respect that they feel is not being returned.

If you honestly think that their primary goal is to have NFL rules changed regarding players standing for the anthem, then there is nothing more to discuss.

 

[e_blazer]

Interesting story on the history of playing the national anthem at sporting events:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...em-got-tangled-up-with-american-sports-215646

 

[Natebishop3]

If you honestly think that their primary goal is to have NFL rules changed regarding players standing for the anthem, then there is nothing more to discuss.

And if you want to micro it down to the details, that's your prerogative, but in the macro scheme of things, both sides are using their jobs as a vehicle to raise awareness for their cause by protesting something that they are contractually obligated to do.

 

[barfo]

Okay, protesting the national anthem is one thing, but THIS is not cool. Taps is a song about respecting the dead, and this was at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Really really really uncool.

Not shown, but I'll bet there is someone in that crowd scratching his balls, and another 15 looking at their phones.

There's a lot out there to be offended by if you spend time looking for it.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Not shown, but I'll bet there is someone in that crowd scratching his balls, and another 15 looking at their phones.

There's a lot out there to be offended by if you spend time looking for it.

barfo

I didn't realize that ball scratching was a political statement. Here I have been making political statements for decades!

 

[barfo]

I didn't realize that ball scratching was a political statement. Here I have been making political statements for decades!

Yes, you have, and I'm tremendously offended.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Yes, you have, and I'm tremendously offended.

barfo

Listen, it's not my fault you get squeamish at the sight of a man scratchin his balls outside your window at night.

 

[barfo]

Listen, it's not my fault you get squeamish at the sight of a man scratchin his balls outside your window at night.

Outside the window would be fine. It's against the window that I object to.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Outside the window would be fine. It's against the window that I object to.

barfo

It's a matter of getting the right amount of leverage. It's a technique that I have perfected over the last 25 years.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Okay, protesting the national anthem is one thing, but THIS is not cool. Taps is a song about respecting the dead, and this was at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Really really really uncool.

He couldn't be taking a moment to pray? To cry over a lost relative? Those aren't shoelaces on the ground are they?

But sure, a black person kneeling can only mean he's being disrespectful. F'ing n-worder! Probably raped 3 white girls on the way there.

 

[Natebishop3]

He couldn't be taking a moment to pray? To cry over a lost relative? Those aren't shoelaces on the ground are they?

But sure, a black person kneeling can only mean he's being disrespectful. F'ing n-worder! Probably raped 3 white girls on the way there.

Maybe you're not actually a dog

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Maybe you're not actually a dog

 

[MarAzul]

umm, can't remember a Japanese American fucking around during the Anthem.

 

[MickZagger]

Sell out tonight in Green Bay

 

[Paine Tablet]

The problem is, there isn't systemic prejudice towards these groups at the same level as there are towards minorities. .

It's worse, and I just gave you two examples in my previous post. The WaPo has a database of police killings since the start of 2017: 700 out of 730 police killings were men. Seven african-american women and around 300 white men. Account for per capita all you want, white males face far more systematic prejudice than both black and white women. This is just as true in sentencing and incarceration rates. I would have far less of an issue if BLM was solely about black men, because they indeed face the most discrimination outside of the mentally ill, homeless, and male demographics. I saw a study that basically showed that the homeless are victims of violent hate crimes at about twice the rate of all other protected classes combined. These disparities are just as real and are just as systematic, yet you are trying to tell me that Dame is taking a knee for them? Sure he mostly likely cares at some level, but it's never talked about and people only receive ridicule for bringing it up in comparison - which is silly to any person genuinely concerned about equality.

 

[PDXFonz]

NOT OT!!! :MARIS61:

 

[Paine Tablet]

"Yeah, but what about..."

This whole "don't protest X because Y is a bigger problem" is bullshit. It's only used to silence.

They're not protesting what you want them to protest because they're not on the same hella woke MRA forums as you are. Shame, really.

Why are you so resistant to the idea that other demographics have it worse than both women and blacks? What does that say about how you feel about the most vulnerable demographic: men? Of these issues being protested, men as a group are by far the most affected. Yet here you are shitting on someone stating in plain fact this truth. Why? I can only surmise that you hate men at some level. What else would cause you to summarily dismiss equalitative aims?

 

[Paine Tablet]

Serious question. Why is race discrimination leveled against black people seen as worse than gender discrimination against men despite that gender discrimination is worse in both prevalence and total number of victims? More people are affected by gender discrimination, so why isn't it the issue being discussed with regard to discrimination? Why does race have precedence, if in total it affects less people at lower rates?

It's not a hard set of questions. If this were about anything else, math whizzes would be here telling me how stupid everyone else is for ignoring the obvious mathematical implications. So far though, I fear preconceived biases prevent even the most cursory attempt to process the basic math involved

And for anyone genuinely interested in helping the black demographic, don't you realize that you would be helping blacks the most by concentrating on the gender gap, because that is the gap most responsible for rates at which blacks are victimized? Elsewise, just look at the 7 black women killed by police in comparison to the 159 black men so far in 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

A fun one: 27 unarmed men. 5 unarmed women. Male empathy gap in action, every bit as heinous as racism.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Serious question. Why is race discrimination leveled against black people seen as worse than gender discrimination against men despite that gender discrimination is worse in both prevalence and total number of victims? More people are affected by gender discrimination, so why isn't it the issue being discussed with regard to discrimination? Why does race have precedence, if in total it affects less people at lower rates?

It's not a hard set of questions. If this were about anything else, math whizzes would be here telling me how stupid everyone else is for ignoring the obvious mathematical implications. So far though, I fear preconceived biases prevent even the most cursory attempt to process the basic math involved

And for anyone genuinely interested in helping the black demographic, don't you realize that you would be helping blacks the most by concentrating on the gender gap, because that is the gap most responsible for rates at which blacks are victimized? Elsewise, just look at the 7 black women killed by police in comparison to the 166 black men so far in 2017.

An important consideration is who is responsible for the anti-______ discrimination. White people are responsible for systemic anti-black discrimination. Men are responsible for systemic anti-female discrimination. If there is systemic anti-male discrimination by the criminal justice system, who perpetuates it?

Other men. That's why it's not seen as equivalent; because we do it to ourselves.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Man on man crime is the real culprit. Get your fucking culture right before you ask us outside of the culture to care.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sell out tonight in Green Bay

View attachment 16350

You understand those tickets were already sold, right?