Game Thread 2024-25 GAME #16 - NBA CUP - BLAZERS @ ROCKETS - NOV 22, 2024 - FRI - 5:00 PM - KATU, CHARGE, BV

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Ugly ass game. Hopefully we play better tonight.

 

[wizenheimer]

Just look at Nurkic and pretend there aren't any other centers taking 3-pointers? Oh, there's Meyers Leonard too.

how many has Gobert shot? (17 attempts in 12 seasons) Drummond? In the last 3 seasons, Sabonis has averaged 1.17 attempts a game. Zubac has shot 12 three's in 9 seasons; Steven Adams has shot 15 attempts in 11 seasons. The two Dallas C's, Lively & Stafford have combined for 8 seasons and exactly ZERO attempts. Hartenstein has 87 attempts in 327 games. Dwight Howard had 120 attempts in 1367 games and he was an 8 time all-NBA selection; a 5 time all-NBA-Defender; and an 8 time all-star. Nic Claxton has attempted 19 in 6 seasons; Nick Richards has shot 4 in 5 seasons. Bam Adebayo has attempted 152 in 576 games

I'm not "pretending" anything. Clingan is not an Embiid or a Wemby or a Holmgren. He's limited on offense and he doesn't have good handles. He needs to work on ball security in traffic before he chucks up a bunch of three's in practice. And his best offensive skill is offensive rebounding which happens to be one of the most valuable skills for a big man; and also about the highest value offensive possession in the NBA. He can't grab offensive rebounds when he's 23 feet from the rim

so far, 13% of Clingan's shots have been three's. 0.3% of Gobert's shots have been three's; 0.4% of Zubac's shots have been three's; 2.5% of Adebayo's attempts have been three's. I don't want Clingan's rate to go higher

 

[THE HCP]

Ohhhhhh…. I can understand why you hate it now FAMS!

 

[THE HCP]

I have lost family to cancer. My dad almost died to lung cancer. It’s a word.

Ant is a nondescript form of infectious disease, which has never been contracted before by anyone real or imagined and bears no resemblance to anything that may or may not trigger someone.

That’s a word that hits home with A LOT of people. Not sure it works here.

 

[lawai'a]

how many has Gobert shot? (17 attempts in 12 seasons) Drummond? In the last 3 seasons, Sabonis has averaged 1.17 attempts a game. Zubac has shot 12 three's in 9 seasons; Steven Adams has shot 15 attempts in 11 seasons. The two Dallas C's, Lively & Stafford have combined for 8 seasons and exactly ZERO attempts. Hartenstein has 87 attempts in 327 games. Dwight Howard had 120 attempts in 1367 games and he was an 8 time all-NBA selection; a 5 time all-NBA-Defender; and an 8 time all-star. Nic Claxton has attempted 19 in 6 seasons; Nick Richards has shot 4 in 5 seasons. Bam Adebayo has attempted 152 in 576 games

I'm not "pretending" anything. Clingan is not an Embiid or a Wemby or a Holmgren. He's limited on offense and he doesn't have good handles. He needs to work on ball security in traffic before he chucks up a bunch of three's in practice. And his best offensive skill is offensive rebounding which happens to be one of the most valuable skills for a big man; and also about the highest value offensive possession in the NBA. He can't grab offensive rebounds when he's 23 feet from the rim

so far, 13% of Clingan's shots have been three's. 0.3% of Gobert's shots have been three's; 0.4% of Zubac's shots have been three's; 2.5% of Adebayo's attempts have been three's. I don't want Clingan's rate to go higher

So far this season 17.5% of Bam’s attempts have been 3 pointers

 

[THE HCP]

Also, Ant isn’t tearing this team apart or in anyway is a negative influence towards other players or in the locker room. His teammates love that dude. People may hate how he plays, but that’s a whole other story.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Ohhhhhh…. I can understand why you hate it now FAMS!

But do they really know better?

 

[wizenheimer]

So far this season 17.5% of Bam’s attempts have been 3 pointers

AND...his TS% this season is the lowest of his career at .501 when his career average TS% is .595. He also has the lowest FT rate of his career right now. He probably needs to stop chucking three's and get back to his strengths

 

[lawai'a]

AND...his TS% this season is the lowest of his career at .501 when his career average TS% is .595. He also has the lowest FT rate of his career right now. He probably needs to stop chucking three's and get back to his strengths

His 2 point percentage is also at a career low of 45%. Last five games he is at 50% on threes at over 2 attempts per game.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Also, Ant isn’t tearing this team apart or in anyway is a negative influence towards other players or in the locker room. His teammates love that dude. People may hate how he plays, but that’s a whole other story.

No. That's the whole story. Nobody is hanging with the players and judging them off personality. We're watching the games. We're basing our opinions off that.

What you're talking about is a "whole other story."

 

[wizenheimer]

His 2 point percentage is also at a career low of 45%. Last five games he is at 50% on threes at over 2 attempts per game.

which still means he's shooting more three's and having his worst shooting season. This may be correlation without causation, but it sure doesn't mean that Clingan should shoot more three's

 

[lawai'a]

which still means he's shooting more three's and having his worst shooting season. This may be correlation without causation, but it sure doesn't mean that Clingan should shoot more three's

The threes have no impact on his 2 point percentage sir

 

[wizenheimer]

The threes have no impact on his 2 point percentage sir

how do you know this is true?

his career 3PAr is 2.5% but his rate this season is 17.5%. It could easily be his significantly different shot selection this season is affecting his 2 point conversion rate. For his career, 38% of his shots were at the rim; this season, only 21% of his shots were at the rim. His average shot distance for his career has been 7 feet; this season it's 10.5 feet. He's obviously changed what has worked very well for him over his first 8 seasons and the results have been the worst overall shooting efficiency of his career, by far

besides all that, I listed about a dozen examples of C's who have never taken many three's, and the one you're focusing on is the one who has taken dramatically more three's in 13 games this season and is having the worst season of his career. I'm not sure what you think this shows?

 

[blazerfan11]

how many has Gobert shot? (17 attempts in 12 seasons) Drummond? In the last 3 seasons, Sabonis has averaged 1.17 attempts a game. Zubac has shot 12 three's in 9 seasons; Steven Adams has shot 15 attempts in 11 seasons. The two Dallas C's, Lively & Stafford have combined for 8 seasons and exactly ZERO attempts. Hartenstein has 87 attempts in 327 games. Dwight Howard had 120 attempts in 1367 games and he was an 8 time all-NBA selection; a 5 time all-NBA-Defender; and an 8 time all-star. Nic Claxton has attempted 19 in 6 seasons; Nick Richards has shot 4 in 5 seasons. Bam Adebayo has attempted 152 in 576 games

I'm not "pretending" anything. Clingan is not an Embiid or a Wemby or a Holmgren. He's limited on offense and he doesn't have good handles. He needs to work on ball security in traffic before he chucks up a bunch of three's in practice. And his best offensive skill is offensive rebounding which happens to be one of the most valuable skills for a big man; and also about the highest value offensive possession in the NBA. He can't grab offensive rebounds when he's 23 feet from the rim

so far, 13% of Clingan's shots have been three's. 0.3% of Gobert's shots have been three's; 0.4% of Zubac's shots have been three's; 2.5% of Adebayo's attempts have been three's. I don't want Clingan's rate to go higher

It feels like you're trying to pidgeonhole a player who's NBA career has just started.

Clingan's role like any player on the team should be to help the team win.

If Clingan has 3-point shooting skills that can help the team win, he should use those skills.

You don't mention how a 3-point shooting Big can help open up the floor for someone like Shaedon Sharpe to drive the lane.

Wide-open 3-point shots do not require a high degree of basketball skills other than hitting the shot.

 

[wizenheimer]

It feels like you're trying to pidgeonhole a player who's NBA career has just started.

Clingan's role like any player on the team should be to help the team win.

If Clingan has 3-point shooting skills that can help the team win, he should use those skills.

You don't mention how a 3-point shooting Big can help open up the floor for someone like Shaedon Sharpe to drive the lane.

Wide-open 3-point shots do not require a high degree of basketball skills other than hitting the shot.

it's simple. I don't want to see a 7'2 Blazer 20 year old rookie big man who is excellent at offensive rebounding, shooting many three's early in his career. He doesn't have good ball-handling and he doesn't pass well, so his high post game is pretty much non-existent at this point in time. The only purpose to park him behind the arc is as an outlet option. That, to me, is playing to his weaknesses and playing away from his strengths

I think in his priority list of 'things-to-work-on', shooting 23-25 foot shots is way down the list

 

[AldoTrapani]

Wow! We can't get rid of Ant, Jerami and Deandre fast enough. They just don't have the right roles on this team.

I liked the limited things I saw out of Shaedon tonight. I liked the really limited minutes I saw from Donovan.

It's a sad night for @AldoTrapani because the Rockets would have turned Scoot over a ton and Aldo could have talked some shit about Scoot, which is Aldo's favorite thing to do these days.

Goddamn, Clingan was Blazers broadcasting's player of the game in 15 and that's how bad we were tonight.

Scoot sucks my friend. A lot of ppl can tell you that. Don’t hitch your wagon to Mr Turnover

 

[AldoTrapani]

No. That's the whole story. Nobody is hanging with the players and judging them off personality. We're watching the games. We're basing our opinions off that.

What you're talking about is a "whole other story."

Great response. Big bro is pretty much saying “…who cares how’s he’s playing but but but he’s a nice guy “

 

[SharpesTriumph]

how many has Gobert shot? (17 attempts in 12 seasons) Drummond? In the last 3 seasons, Sabonis has averaged 1.17 attempts a game. Zubac has shot 12 three's in 9 seasons; Steven Adams has shot 15 attempts in 11 seasons. The two Dallas C's, Lively & Stafford have combined for 8 seasons and exactly ZERO attempts. Hartenstein has 87 attempts in 327 games. Dwight Howard had 120 attempts in 1367 games and he was an 8 time all-NBA selection; a 5 time all-NBA-Defender; and an 8 time all-star. Nic Claxton has attempted 19 in 6 seasons; Nick Richards has shot 4 in 5 seasons. Bam Adebayo has attempted 152 in 576 games

I'm not "pretending" anything. Clingan is not an Embiid or a Wemby or a Holmgren. He's limited on offense and he doesn't have good handles. He needs to work on ball security in traffic before he chucks up a bunch of three's in practice. And his best offensive skill is offensive rebounding which happens to be one of the most valuable skills for a big man; and also about the highest value offensive possession in the NBA. He can't grab offensive rebounds when he's 23 feet from the rim

so far, 13% of Clingan's shots have been three's. 0.3% of Gobert's shots have been three's; 0.4% of Zubac's shots have been three's; 2.5% of Adebayo's attempts have been three's. I don't want Clingan's rate to go higher

I don't see any downside to Clingan shooting 3s in practice and a few in a game right now. Eventually it could become a real weapon for him. If it was a ton of attempts he was jacking up right now and he was out of rebounding position yes that could be a concern, but I've seen zero evidence of that. Clingan is a super hard worker and team first guy, he isn't putting his shots above any team responsibilities. The comparisons you list are silly as Clingan has shown his shot is better than all of them.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

how do you know this is true?

his career 3PAr is 2.5% but his rate this season is 17.5%. It could easily be his significantly different shot selection this season is affecting his 2 point conversion rate. For his career, 38% of his shots were at the rim; this season, only 21% of his shots were at the rim. His average shot distance for his career has been 7 feet; this season it's 10.5 feet. He's obviously changed what has worked very well for him over his first 8 seasons and the results have been the worst overall shooting efficiency of his career, by far

besides all that, I listed about a dozen examples of C's who have never taken many three's, and the one you're focusing on is the one who has taken dramatically more three's in 13 games this season and is having the worst season of his career. I'm not sure what you think this shows?

Your analysing players as if they are playing 1 on 1. There may be a team reason that Bam's role is being changed. I trust Spo to figure that out.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

it's simple. I don't want to see a 7'2 Blazer 20 year old rookie big man who is excellent at offensive rebounding, shooting many three's early in his career. He doesn't have good ball-handling and he doesn't pass well, so his high post game is pretty much non-existent at this point in time. The only purpose to park him behind the arc is as an outlet option. That, to me, is playing to his weaknesses and playing away from his strengths

I think in his priority list of 'things-to-work-on', shooting 23-25 foot shots is way down the list

If he starts playing like Meyers then fine. I don't see any issue with his 3s now as I've seen zero negatives from it. If he can develop an effective 3pt shot it has big advantages. These are the type of skills young players can experiment with on a rebuilding squad like ours.

He shot zero threes for years at UCONN with a much shorter line on a dominant team so we have evidence he will not be shooting them if the team is ever better served by that.

 

[MickZagger]

it's simple. I don't want to see a 7'2 Blazer 20 year old rookie big man who is excellent at offensive rebounding, shooting many three's early in his career. He doesn't have good ball-handling and he doesn't pass well, so his high post game is pretty much non-existent at this point in time. The only purpose to park him behind the arc is as an outlet option. That, to me, is playing to his weaknesses and playing away from his strengths

I think in his priority list of 'things-to-work-on', shooting 23-25 foot shots is way down the list

While I don’t want him to be a high volume 3 pt shooter either, it’s a league predicated on keeping defenders honest. If he can drag out an interior defender because he has the ability to hit that shot, it can open things up in the lane for our guards.

 

[wizenheimer]

While I don’t want him to be a high volume 3 pt shooter either, it’s a league predicated on keeping defenders honest. If he can drag out an interior defender because he has the ability to hit that shot, it can open things up in the lane for our guards.

that seems like an unproven theory; maybe even a disproved theory. The opposing C guarding Clingan is not going to track him all the way out to 20 feet from the rim. Not until Clingan can prove he can consistently hit 38-40% of the three's he takes. And the only way he can prove that is by shooting a bunch of them. Bigs didn't chase Meyers Leonard out to the arc even when he was making 40%. That's why he was almost always wide open out there. That's especially going to be the case if Clingan is shooting less than two three's a game and making o.5-0.8 a game. That will not change any opponent's defensive game plan. No chance

if fact, at this point I think opposing teams would consider it a big win whenever Clingan was parked around the arc on offense. After last night, Clingan's offensive rebounding rate is 19%. Daniel Gafford leads the NBA among qualified players at 15.9%. Clingan doesn't qualify yet because of minutes. Clingan is averaging 3.2 off rebounds in 17 minutes. His per36 projection is 6.7 off rebounds. That's going to hurt opposing teams a lot more than the extra point he might make from behind the arc

something else about that theory: teams don't chase Jokic or Embiid or Sabonis out to 20 feet from the hoop just because they might hit one or even two three's a game. They go out that far because they know they have to contest passing lanes from guys like that. Jokic is averaging 11 assists; Sabonis average 8 last season; Embiid aveaged 6. Those guys can pick a team apart if they aren't guarded closely. Clingan is averaging 0.3 assists; 0.6 per36. He's not a threat as a passer or as an initiator of offense. He'd just be a 7'2 spot-up shooter

If he starts playing like Meyers then fine. I don't see any issue with his 3s now as I've seen zero negatives from it. If he can develop an effective 3pt shot it has big advantages. These are the type of skills young players can experiment with on a rebuilding squad like ours.

He shot zero threes for years at UCONN with a much shorter line on a dominant team so we have evidence he will not be shooting them if the team is ever better served by that.

I think you guys are reacting to assumptions of what I was arguing instead of the context of what I said

somebody posted that if Clingan could get "comfortable" shooting three's it would be a good thing. I simply said I wasn't a fan of that idea. There would be only one way Clingan can get comfortable shooting three's in games and that by shooting them often; for sure shooting a lot more often than he has so far. Practice three's aren't the same thing.

I said I'd rather have Clingan working on other things and that three's would be way down the list of priorities for a 20 year old 7'2 C. I don't have a problem with him averaging about 0.5 attempts right now. I wouldn't have much of one with him averaging 1 attempt if his minutes increase. I just don't want to see him shooting more than 2 a game; not at this point in his career. If he gets a little comfortable shooting three's by his 3rd or 4th season, fine. I still think it would be taking him away from what he does best

 

[blazerfan11]

that seems like an unproven theory; maybe even a disproved theory. The opposing C guarding Clingan is not going to track him all the way out to 20 feet from the rim. Not until Clingan can prove he can consistently hit 38-40% of the three's he takes. And the only way he can prove that is by shooting a bunch of them. Bigs didn't chase Meyers Leonard out to the arc even when he was making 40%. That's why he was almost always wide open out there. That's especially going to be the case if Clingan is shooting less than two three's a game and making o.5-0.8 a game. That will not change any opponent's defensive game plan. No chance

if fact, at this point I think opposing teams would consider it a big win whenever Clingan was parked around the arc on offense. After last night, Clingan's offensive rebounding rate is 19%. Daniel Gafford leads the NBA among qualified players at 15.9%. Clingan doesn't qualify yet because of minutes. Clingan is averaging 3.2 off rebounds in 17 minutes. His per36 projection is 6.7 off rebounds. That's going to hurt opposing teams a lot more than the extra point he might make from behind the arc

something else about that theory: teams don't chase Jokic or Embiid or Sabonis out to 20 feet from the hoop just because they might hit one or even two three's a game. They go out that far because they know they have to contest passing lanes from guys like that. Jokic is averaging 11 assists; Sabonis average 8 last season; Embiid aveaged 6. Those guys can pick a team apart if they aren't guarded closely. Clingan is averaging 0.3 assists; 0.6 per36. He's not a threat as a passer or as an initiator of offense. He'd just be a 7'2 spot-up shooter



I think you guys are reacting to assumptions of what I was arguing instead of the context of what I said

somebody posted that if Clingan could get "comfortable" shooting three's it would be a good thing. I simply said I wasn't a fan of that idea. There would be only one way Clingan can get comfortable shooting three's in games and that by shooting them often; for sure shooting a lot more often than he has so far. Practice three's aren't the same thing.

I said I'd rather have Clingan working on other things and that three's would be way down the list of priorities for a 20 year old 7'2 C. I don't have a problem with him averaging about 0.5 attempts right now. I wouldn't have much of one with him averaging 1 attempt if his minutes increase. I just don't want to see him shooting more than 2 a game; not at this point in his career. If he gets a little comfortable shooting three's by his 3rd or 4th season, fine. I still think it would be taking him away from what he does best

I think you're starting from a different point than I am.
I believe Clingan already is a good 3-point shooter if he's wide open.
He needs game attempts, not more practice shots.

I don't understand how taking 3-4 wide open three-point shots during a game prevents him from working on other aspects of his game. That better not be true.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think you're starting from a different point than I am.
I believe Clingan already is a good 3-point shooter if he's wide open.
He needs game attempts, not more practice shots.

I don't understand how taking 3-4 wide open three-point shots during a game prevents him from working on other aspects of his game. That better not be true.

3 or 4? seriously? He's averaging 17 minutes. That would be 6-8 attempts per36. Grant is averaging 6.6; Simons 7.2

in the previous couple of seasons, Saboins has averaged 1.1 attempts/game in 35 minutes; and he shot 37.5%

since Ayton has been out, Clingan has averaged 22.7 minutes. AND, he's averaged 6 FGA in that stretch. Say he gets up to 25 minutes and increases his FGA to 8 a game. You're suggesting he should take close to half of his shots from three? Think about that. He wouldn't receive the pass and jack up a shot every time he went out that far. How many times would he have to float out behind the arc to get of 3-4 shots? 15? 20? And how many of those times would that put him out of offensive rebounding range?

 

[Everything Beagle]

3 or 4? seriously? He's averaging 17 minutes. That would be 6-8 attempts per36. Grant is averaging 6.6; Simons 7.2

in the previous couple of seasons, Saboins has averaged 1.1 attempts/game in 35 minutes; and he shot 37.5%

since Ayton has been out, Clingan has averaged 22.7 minutes. AND, he's averaged 6 FGA in that stretch. Say he gets up to 25 minutes and increases his FGA to 8 a game. You're suggesting he should take close to half of his shots from three? Think about that. He wouldn't receive the pass and jack up a shot every time he went out that far. How many times would he have to float out behind the arc to get of 3-4 shots? 15? 20? And how many of those times would that put him out of offensive rebounding range?

If the shots are wide open and he feels confident about the shots, he should take them, period. At this point the games are Practice But With Real Opponents. There are no stakes whatsoever this season. I’d love to see him work on a midrange jumper too. Let him explore the space. It’s not a big deal.