5/18, 4 Assists from the "PG" Miller in 38 Minutes

[Fez Hammersticks]

That was Sergio's best game of his career (rookie season) and has been below average ever since.

4-19-2005 VS. Denver

47 pts
12 rebs
5 blks
4 stls
57 fg%

Oh how I miss Darius Miles. How could we have ever let this guy go?

 

[MARIS61]

You're a liar and a troll. Plain and simple.

BNM

Well, one of us is a liar:

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148062

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, one of us is a liar:

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148062

You aren't a liar MARIS, you're just a shit stirrer.

 

[bemac]

Was this a serious post? Did you even see the game?

Outlaw refused to shoot, for fear of missing another shot.

Blake was struggling to hit the backboard. Roy was sitting on the bench, laughing it up with Aldridge.

Oden was missing the entire game with foul trouble.

Joel just does not have anything going on offense

Batum is not shooting well.

Luckily, we had a guy like Miller who was forced to force it....He made amazing passes, and got Oden going in the 4th. He has been the most consistent player on the team this preseason.

 

[B-Roy]

Miller doesn't deserve all this shit that he's getting, but let's be honest, he didn't have a great game like some people here are insinuating.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Well, one of us is a liar:

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148062

So, you admit you are a troll. Interesting tactic.

BNM

 

[Schilly]

So you like him as a replacement for Roy. That's gotta be a lonely view.

Follow me here, I'll try to phrase it in as simple english as possible....

All 3 had shooting range, which Andre does not.

Only Payton shot over 30% from 3 for his career at 31%. Andre doesn't even really bother shooting 3's because he's not great at it. So his shooting is pretty much as good as any of those "Guys with better shooting range.

Your argument as usual is a crock that you can't support with anything but more made up drivel.

 

[LOTBfan]

Good PG's rarely take 18 attempts, especially if they only make 5.

But here is Sergio taking 14 shots, the most he ever took in an NBA game.

He made 11 of them (78.6%) for 23 pts, threw 10 assists, had 4 def boards, 3 steals, 4 to, 3 pf, in 30 minutes.

and it took him what, 5 or 6 games last season to total those stats from his career high point?

are you waiting for the 8track and goldfish gogo boots to also one day get the recognition and revival they deserve?

 

[Schilly]

Good PG's rarely take 18 attempts

Have you ever bothered to check into that? AS you pointed out even Sergio took an absurd number of shots for himself in one game... Miller takes 18 in one game and he is vilified, yet for his career he has averaged 11.7 fga per game. Nash has averaged more than that while in his 2nd stint as a Sun, and I am pretty sure if you looked really close you'd find that last year alone Nash had 12 games where he took 18 or more FGA, in fact took 27 in one gameI'm not saying Andre is as good as Steve Nash, but according to you...

Good PG's rarely take 18 attempts

CHris Paul must not be a very Good PG as he has averaged over 14 FGA per game for his career... Including 31 games last season alone with 18 or more FGA, but you know....

Good PG's rarely take 18 attempts

Deron Williams has averaged 12.9 fga per game for his career, 14.5 last season. He even had 16 games with 18 or more FGA... But hey when...

Good PG's rarely take 18 attempts

And you knwo everyone loves Chauncey and he averaged 12.5 fga per game last year. Nobody thought that it made him a orse PG when ghe put up 18 or more in 8 of 79 games he played in last season

Hey you know what?

Good PG's rarely take 18 attempts

That's kind of a load of shit. Because even the great Jason Kidd for his career averages more FGA per game than Andre Miller. In fact one season he averaged 15.6 fga per game, shooting 18 opr more in 26 games, shoot one game he doubled up Andre and his sinister 18 with 36 fga... 36! Ohh but he only made 12. He must not be a very good PG.

 

[LOTBfan]

dude, he is going to have to put you in your place now, saying that you took that quote out of context, and twisted it to create lies... probably by redefining the term rarely to meet his current needs... just like redefining the term frequently in his other dog turd thread

don't bait him with proof.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Have you ever bothered to check into that? AS you pointed out even Sergio took an absurd number of shots for himself in one game... Miller takes 18 in one game and he is vilified, yet for his career he has averaged 11.7 fga per game. Nash has averaged more than that while in his 2nd stint as a Sun, and I am pretty sure if you looked really close you'd find that last year alone Nash had 12 games where he took 18 or more FGA, in fact took 27 in one gameI'm not saying Andre is as good as Steve Nash, but according to you...


CHris Paul must not be a very Good PG as he has averaged over 14 FGA per game for his career... Including 31 games last season alone with 18 or more FGA, but you know....


Deron Williams has averaged 12.9 fga per game for his career, 14.5 last season. He even had 16 games with 18 or more FGA... But hey when...


And you knwo everyone loves Chauncey and he averaged 12.5 fga per game last year. Nobody thought that it made him a orse PG when ghe put up 18 or more in 8 of 79 games he played in last season

Hey you know what?


That's kind of a load of shit. Because even the great Jason Kidd for his career averages more FGA per game than Andre Miller. In fact one season he averaged 15.6 fga per game, shooting 18 opr more in 26 games, shoot one game he doubled up Andre and his sinister 18 with 36 fga... 36! Ohh but he only made 12. He must not be a very good PG.

It astounds me the way some posters in this forum try to use a single data point (one game) to argue for or against a certain player.

Sergio had one good game almost three years ago, and he is the next Stockton.

Miller puts up 18 shots in a preseason game where the team is missing two key offensive contributors, two others are saddled with foul trouble and two more couldn't throw the ball in the ocean, and suddenly he's a selfish shoot first ballhog who only cares about his own stats.

Only a complete moron would make such arguments based on single data points. Anyone with half a brain will look at the career accomplishments of both players and clearly see that Miller is an infinitely better PG than Sergio. It's not even close. That's why Miller has been a starter on every team he's played for and Sergio is a 3rd string bench warmer on the worst team in the league. He can't even get minutes on a team that features Beno Udrih and a rookie shooting guard playing out of position at the point.

So, enjoy that one clip of Sergio's career night. It is an isolated incident that took place in the distant past. He hasn't come close to duplicating it since, and never will (well, at least not in the NBA).

BNM

 

[Schilly]

dude, he is going to have to put you in your place now, saying that you took that quote out of context, and twisted it to create lies... probably by redefining the term rarely to meet his current needs... just like redefining the term frequently in his other dog turd thread

don't bait him with proof.

It is quite interesting to see the length of the unfurling turd required to defend a ridiculous notion isn't it?

 

[julius]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=4733213

 

[MARIS61]

So, you admit you are a troll. Interesting tactic.

BNM

I was referring to this lie you posted yesterday morning in that thread.

All this "angst" is two trolls who look for a cloud to every silver lining. I'm putting them both back on ignore, so I can start enjoying this forum again. I recommend others do the same.

BNM

Just can't get enough of me, can you?

 

[jlprk]

Miller's career attempts = 9541 His career assists = 6020

John Stockton's attempts = 13658 John's career assists = 15,806

See the ratio disparity?

So, let's look at #'s 6-8 on the all time assist list.

6. Isaiah Thomas FGA=15904; assists=9061; ratio=1.755 fga/a
7. Gary Payton FGA=18698; assists=8966; ratio=2.085 fga/a
8. Rod Strickland FGA=11928; assists=7987; ratio=1.493 fga/a

Miller's 1.585 fits right in with those guys.

That equals 1.58 FGA/AST. That's hardly shoot first PG territory.

Terry Porter: 11734 FGA, 7160 AST = 1.63 FGA/AST

FGA/asst..FGA..assists..player

0.845 04136 04893 Nate McMillan
0.864 13658 15806 John Stockton
0.923 06210 06726 Muggsy Bogues
1.585 09541 06020 Andre Miller

Does that mean that Andre Miller sucks, or simply that Nate McMillan is one weird dude who shot less often than a 5 foot 3 midget who couldn't get close to a defender without getting his shot blocked?

 

[jlprk]

Name one time in Sergio's entire 3 year NBA career when he played 38 minutes and committed ZERO turn overs. Name one time in his entire 3 year when Sergio got to the FT line 9 times in one game. Name one time in Sergio's entire 3 year career when he drew three fouls on the opponents three best big men. Name one time when Sergio held one of the best PGs in the game to 11 points on 2-6 shooting. Name one time where he did ANY of those things, let alone all of them in the same game.

"Name one time in Sergio's entire 3 year NBA career when he played 38 minutes and committed ZERO turn overs."

A convenient choice, since his record, as you apparently know, is 37 minutes. He had only 2 TO in that game. In other games he had 2 TO in 34 min, 0 TO in 27 min, 1 TO in 26 min, etc.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=MlgjI

His zero-TO games are as follows.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=0tU9W

"Name one time in his entire 3 year when Sergio got to the FT line 9 times in one game."

His FTA record is 6, done 3 times, one time in only 11 minutes. Remember, "his entire 3 year" career sums to 1 season of playing time, and averaged 12 min/game, which makes 9 FTA hard to attain.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=9ucVU

"Name one time in Sergio's entire 3 year career when he drew three fouls on the opponents three best big men."

I'll give you the easiest one to solve.

"Name one time when Sergio held one of the best PGs in the game to 11 points on 2-6 shooting."

Bonus, I'll let you figure out how to solve that one, too.

"Name one time where he did ANY of those things, let alone all of them in the same game."

He'd have to run a team over a season to have the chance to get the stats you want.

 

[jlprk]

But here is Sergio taking 14 shots, the most he ever took in an NBA game. He made 11 of them (78.6%) for 23 pts, threw 10 assists, had 4 def boards, 3 steals, 4 to, 3 pf, in 30 minutes.

MARIS, you must be pretty proud of yourself.

I doubt he is because that wasn't atypical. We all saw Sergio play like that often in his rookie year. He just happened to get more minutes that game, so his stats peaked in that game. It's pretty easy for most of us all to remember. You should have been there.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He'd have to run a team over a season to have the chance to get the stats you want.

Thank you , thank you, thank you for proving my point. Andre Miller did all of those things in the game last night and people (well, two people anyway) are talking like it was the worst performance by a PG ever. Yet, it would take Sergio an entire season of running the point to have a chance to duplicate the positive things Miller accomplished in his "awful" game. against Denver.

BNM

 

[jlprk]

It astounds me the way some posters in this forum try to use a single data point (one game) to argue for or against a certain player. Sergio had one good game almost three years ago, and he is the next Stockton.

...So, enjoy that one clip of Sergio's career night. It is an isolated incident that took place in the distant past. He hasn't come close to duplicating it since, and never will (well, at least not in the NBA).

Three years ago he had one great rookie season, not one great game. Sergio was a fabulous prospect when he played in the European style. He had MANY games in which he shocked everyone with his leadership and passing. He could shoot then, as you see in the video tape, when he was given the minutes to get up a full head of steam. He ranked 3rd in the league in assists per minute, among all players--not just rookies.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=Q5AJI

He ranked #182 all-time for an NBA season in assists per minute. He was a great rookie. Look at his peers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=m6vox

Like most players, his efficiency per minute is lower when his minutes per game is lower. So after his rookie year, his low playing time sapped his shooting confidence. What happened? Was it McMillan's no-turnover expectations, or something more general in the NBA itself? You say it's because he doesn't stay in front of his man? But aren't there many other such players who survive in the league? You can say he's not doing any better on the Kings, so it's no loss to us. You can say it's Sergio's fault somehow for deteriorating from his great rookie potential that he showed. But what is it about the NBA which allowed that to happen? It's a tragedy, a loss to the NBA, it probably happens with other Europeans too, and it shouldn't happen.

 

[jlprk]

Thank you , thank you, thank you for proving my point. Andre Miller did all of those things in the game last night and people (well, two people anyway) are talking like it was the worst performance by a PG ever. Yet, it would take Sergio an entire season of running the point to have a chance to duplicate the positive things Miller accomplished in his "awful" game. against Denver.

BNM

I'm not saying that Sergio can produce in 1 out of 82 games what Miller can produce in 1 out of 1 game. I'm saying that Sergio needs 1 year of running a team before he can routinely produce what Miller can, after Miller's 10 years of starting. Miller's a little better at some things, but Sergio's better at passing. Many of us saw an eventual top-10 guard in Sergio as a rookie. He's a great passer.

 

[<-=*PdX*=->]

Miller played PG for 38 minutes.

Your arguement is empty and ill-informed.

Get over yourself and your man crush on Sergio, Rodger. Sergio is gone and is NOT coming back. You are as worthless to this forum as Sergio was to the Blazers.

Your spelling is empty and ill-informed, that is an "arguement".

Don't even come at me with that last statement, ESPECIALLY if you were not at the game and witnessed how much better of PG Miller is than Blake and Bayless. I have been to 2 of the 3 preseason home games now, same story in both. So who is the one that is ill-informed? Still wanna run off box scores your whole life? How has Sergio's box scores looked down in Sacramento?

 

[Boob-No-More]

"Name one time in Sergio's entire 3 year NBA career when he played 38 minutes and committed ZERO turn overs."

A convenient choice, since his record, as you apparently know, is 37 minutes. He had only 2 TO in that game. In other games he had 2 TO in 34 min, 0 TO in 27 min, 1 TO in 26 min, etc.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=MlgjI

So, in other words, he's never done it. His career best is 0 TOs in 26 minutes. Yet, people think Miller's 0 TOs (when he was supposedly dominating the ball) is insignificant. BTW, Miller had six games last season where he played at least 33 minutes and had zero TOs - something Sergio has NEVER done, not even once.

"Name one time in his entire 3 year when Sergio got to the FT line 9 times in one game."

His FTA record is 6, done 3 times, one time in only 11 minutes. Remember, "his entire 3 year" career sums to 1 season of playing time, and averaged 12 min/game, which makes 9 FTA hard to attain.

So, once again, the answer is NEVER. Miller routinely gets to the line 9 or more times in a game. He did it 12 times last season alone. Sergio's career high is 6 FTA in a game. Miller equaled, or bettered, that 37 times last season.

"Name one time in Sergio's entire 3 year career when he drew three fouls on the opponents three best big men."

I'll give you the easiest one to solve.

Hint: the answer once again starts with an N and ends in ever.[/QUOTE]

Miller does all these things in one game, and plays great defense on Chauncy Billups. Yet two posters in this forum want to focus on what a horrible game he had. Makes one wonder what their agenda is. Why would they completely ignore his positive contributions and tear him down because he had an off shooting night (in spite of Blake and Outlaw both shooting worse from the field and not making the other positive contributions from Miller)? Sure seems like a strange way for fans of the team to behave after he led the team to a win.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

How has Sergio's box scores looked down in Sacramento?

Same as they would have looked in Portland:

DNP-CD

In the three games he's played, he's averaging as many TOs as assists and is shooting 0.250 FG% and 0.167 3FG%. Somethings never change. So much for the argument that it was Nate who was holding him back and Maris' prediction that he would thrive in Westphal's system. Same old same old.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Many of us saw an eventual top-10 guard in Sergio as a rookie. He's a great passer.

"Many" of you saw wrong. Would an eventual top-10 guard be rotting away with his butt glued to the bench during preseason on the worst team in the league? If he can't get PT on that team, he won't get it anywhere (in the NBA).

BNM

 

[Nikolokolus]

Wow! What an abortion of a thread. We're still talking about that mediocre POS Sergio like he's still our problem ... and the usual suspects are still pumping his jock. Good times.

 

[jlprk]

This is nothing. You got it easy. Now if I start talking about Bob Whitsitt, you got problems.

 

[Nikolokolus]

This is nothing. You got it easy. Now if I start talking about Bob Whitsitt, you got problems.

Oh I remember your act from the ESPN boards just fine ...

 

[jlprk]

Oh I remember your act from the ESPN boards just fine ...

You showed up about 3 years ago, I think. You saw the flames occasionally jumping out. You should have been there right before he left, when the arguments were really raging. The board was at war. Simultaneously, all ESPN boards were at war over the Iraqi invasion. Great times. A new moderator company took over a couple of years ago, and an early casualty was Gramps. They deleted all his posts that had the Adidas ad. I took over the game and they banned me a couple of times and deleted a year's worth of the game result posts.

Anyway, you missed out on the action, both before you arrived and after you left.

 

[jlprk]

Speaking of acts, you've developed a little arrogance since your ESPN days. When you appeared, your knowledge was obvious to me, and I used to praise you for knowing something. You hadn't developed your present smirking act.

 

[Natebishop3]

One thing that Sergio apologists have yet to fully grasp is how the NBA adapted to Mr. Rodriguez.

There's this little thing in the NBA called scouting. It's really quite useful. Some NBA players actually develop moves that they save specifically for the postseason because of scouting. They don't want their opponents to know everything they have in their repertoire.

Sergio couldn't shoot. He liked to drive and kick. Scouts figured this out. Opponents started to sag off Serg and force him to shoot. They took away his strengths and he never recovered. That's why there was a dropoff from his rookie season.

The sad facts are as follows:

Sergio can't shoot.

Sergio can't play defense.

Sergio can't finish.

He will be out of the league in one or two years, and back playing in Europe. The fact that we can only point to one freakin game in his three years in the league is pretty damn sad if you ask me.