Game Thread GAME# 43: BLAZERS @ MAVERICKS - JANUARY 17, 2020 - FRIDAY, 6:30 PM, ESPN & NBCSNW

[kjironman1]

He hedged at times, and he hedged the first game this season and did so perfecttly!

Actually he hedged well for about 4 games to begin the season. Then they were starting to do it well again after about 20 games. My bet is they will start to do it well again here in about 2-3 weeks. Then i would guess they will do it even better in March. At least that is the tentative timeline i'm coming up with. Of course i don't know any of this for sure and there might be something that happens around the beginning of Feb that might help a bit?

 

[kjironman1]

Eh, even the best ran zones will still have those major weaknesses. Why do you think no one consistently runs it?

Because they are another defensive stunt like just about every option other than Man to Man which in some cases could be called a stunt also. Some things work and some don't against different teams in different situations and different line ups.

 

[BonesJones]

Actually he hedged well for about 4 games to begin the season. Then they were starting to do it well again after about 20 games. My bet is they will start to do it well again here in about 2-3 weeks. Then i would guess they will do it even better in March. At least that is the tentative timeline i'm coming up with. Of course i don't know any of this for sure and there might be something that happens around the beginning of Feb that might help a bit?

No idea what you're trying to say..

 

[BonesJones]

Ive learned that Stotts is limited by his personnel in every facet. For the past 3 years, He hassnt have the personnel to run in transition, move the ball more than a bottom 5 team, cut, hedge screens, etc.

 

[BonesJones]

Because they are another defensive stunt like just about every option other than Man to Man which in some cases could be called a stunt also. Some things work and some don't against different teams in different situations and different line ups.

Well that Mavericks lineup was one of the worst to run zone against.

 

[CupWizier]

Isnt it obvious?

lol, no. Please tell us which high profiled program you played er sat for.

 

[kjironman1]

Explain the nuances of it then.

Basketball 101-
When to use this coverage!
You can use it in many different instances throughout a game, and is probably the most commonly-used coverage that you’ll see in the high school game but less in college and it will be spotted and exploited if used too much in the NBA. Use this coverage if the ball-handler is very quick and good at turning the corner, but not as good of a shooter. You can also use this coverage if you have versatile big men that can hedge out hard on the ball-handler to stop his momentum, and also recover to their man quickly.

When Not to use this coverage!
This coverage can hurt your team if you have slow bigs that struggle to hedge out on the ball-handler, instead allowing him to turn the corner to the basket. If you have big men that just can’t stop the ball-handler using the screen, this probably won’t be a good coverage for you.

This is what Dame does all the time-
The man hedging out on the ball-handler cannot let there be any space between him and the screener as he hedges out. If he allows space there, the ball-handler can split the hedge and attack the rim. How many times have we seen Dame split the defenders?

Explaining the "Nuances" isn't that hard.
Now would you honestly like to talk P-n-R, Blitzing, How about Icing the Ball? Would you like to know about how to do it from different types of sets? There are even some "Junk Type" defenses that could help at times but only in a singular situation to make them think. Maybe the Diamond and 1, Triangle 2 or inverted Triangle 2? I would throw the Box and 1 in there but i figure you know about that one. You use those when you are playing a team that has a certain player that is absolutely killing you. But again they don't work well in the NBA because EVERY player can kill you.

Here is a video of the Blazers using the Ice Down. You called them out last night for doing this on Luke. They did get the stop a couple times and made him pass out of it. Unfortunately Luka is a good player and sees the court well. Also the Blazers lack a couple of long quick defenders that can cruise passing lanes. If you watched the Lakers destroy the Mavs last week you saw Luka literally tear his shirt because he was so upset that his passes were getting plucked off. Blazers lack the talent to defend in that capacity. It's time to come to grips with that fact!

Here is a soft hedge i dug up. Blazers do this all the time.

As a matter of fact every team does this all the time. But when you have more than one shooter on the court in the NBA guess what happens? Yep exactly what the Blazers do to other teams that do it to them on a nightly basis. They dump to Melo or CJ for the Mid range. If the shots are falling soft hedge can get burnt also. Evan Turner used to take advantage of teams trying this also but his shots rarely fell and at times he tried to do too much.

Kjironman is a fan!!!

 

[kjironman1]

lol, no. Please tell us which high profiled program you played er sat for.

Cup that response was not about Bones. there are a couple other posters bashing 1M and saying he is done. Got to agree with Bones on that.

 

[kjironman1]

Well that Mavericks lineup was one of the worst to run zone against.

I agree they could not do it all night. But you have to remember Stotts coached that team back into the game and kept them within reach using variations of it that worked right until three wide open looks simply did not fall. The Blazers held them and should have been able to drop those shots. How many times is dame that wide open and misses?

 

[CupWizier]

Cup that response was not about Bones. there are a couple other posters bashing 1M and saying he is done. Got to agree with Bones on that.

I was merely replying with a follow up to hailblazers question where he asked bones if he ever played competitive basketball and jones replied "isn't it obvious". Not sure how that relates to Simons in any way. What am I missing as I just skimmed through the game thread (hard to stomach to much of it).

 

[kjironman1]

I was merely replying with a follow up to hailblazers question where he asked bones if he ever played competitive basketball and jones replied "isn't it obvious". Not sure how that relates to Simons in any way. What am I missing as I just skimmed through the game thread (hard to stomach to much of it).

No Cup.
Hailblazers asked DDolla if he ever played basketball. Not Bones. Bones just chimed in with "isn't it obvious".
You have to admit as insufferable as @BonesJones and @hoopsjock are about Terry Stotts they both know basketball and have obviously played the game. They know what they are talking about. I have different opinions about things than they do but those guys are paying attention for sure.

 

[hoopsjock]

I would be the worst NBA coach in league, by far, not even close. If I've ever said anything implying I know more about NBA coaching than the NBA coaches, I didn't mean to.

Typically my intention is to offer a counter to why the professional might be doing something when someone thinks it's so easy anyone off the street could win 50 games. My execution is not always perfect.

Yet, you're saying the people you're arguing against wouldn't be good coaches.

I fucking hate when someone turns to the "you think you could do better" crap. Much like what you're saying I'd be a horrible head coach in the NBA. That doesn't mean any of us are disqualified from critiquing a basketball game. If this post from you is truly how you feel don't present your other post in a way that accuses those opposed to you in the same light.

 

[hoopsjock]

Basketball 101-
When to use this coverage!
You can use it in many different instances throughout a game, and is probably the most commonly-used coverage that you’ll see in the high school game but less in college and it will be spotted and exploited if used too much in the NBA. Use this coverage if the ball-handler is very quick and good at turning the corner, but not as good of a shooter. You can also use this coverage if you have versatile big men that can hedge out hard on the ball-handler to stop his momentum, and also recover to their man quickly.

When Not to use this coverage!
This coverage can hurt your team if you have slow bigs that struggle to hedge out on the ball-handler, instead allowing him to turn the corner to the basket. If you have big men that just can’t stop the ball-handler using the screen, this probably won’t be a good coverage for you.

This is what Dame does all the time-
The man hedging out on the ball-handler cannot let there be any space between him and the screener as he hedges out. If he allows space there, the ball-handler can split the hedge and attack the rim. How many times have we seen Dame split the defenders?

Explaining the "Nuances" isn't that hard.
Now would you honestly like to talk P-n-R, Blitzing, How about Icing the Ball? Would you like to know about how to do it from different types of sets? There are even some "Junk Type" defenses that could help at times but only in a singular situation to make them think. Maybe the Diamond and 1, Triangle 2 or inverted Triangle 2? I would throw the Box and 1 in there but i figure you know about that one. You use those when you are playing a team that has a certain player that is absolutely killing you. But again they don't work well in the NBA because EVERY player can kill you.

Here is a video of the Blazers using the Ice Down. You called them out last night for doing this on Luke. They did get the stop a couple times and made him pass out of it. Unfortunately Luka is a good player and sees the court well. Also the Blazers lack a couple of long quick defenders that can cruise passing lanes. If you watched the Lakers destroy the Mavs last week you saw Luka literally tear his shirt because he was so upset that his passes were getting plucked off. Blazers lack the talent to defend in that capacity. It's time to come to grips with that fact!

Here is a soft hedge i dug up. Blazers do this all the time.

As a matter of fact every team does this all the time. But when you have more than one shooter on the court in the NBA guess what happens? Yep exactly what the Blazers do to other teams that do it to them on a nightly basis. They dump to Melo or CJ for the Mid range. If the shots are falling soft hedge can get burnt also. Evan Turner used to take advantage of teams trying this also but his shots rarely fell and at times he tried to do too much.

Kjironman is a fan!!!

Great post KJ but that 2nd video isn't a soft hedge, it's dropping the big and not hedging at all.

If this is a personnel issue, explain to me why Plumlee and Turner begged coach Stotts to be more aggressive in his pick and roll coverages and Stotts wouldn't really let them. Every once in awhile Stotts will have a game where he does something different, like the previous game against Houston.

My point all along has been that no defense works every time, against every team, against every player, and in every situation. I think Stotts' defenses are mostly predictable which is the worst way to play defense if the offensive player knows exactly what we're going to do practically every screen that is set. I'd understand being stubborn to change more if we were talking about a top-15 defense. You start out in training camp and preseason learning multiple defensive strategies and implementing them throughout the season so the players are prepared to run them better in the playoffs when it's really needed. Last year is a perfect example, we made the WCF and tried to do something defensively they hadn't tried all year and the rotations were a split second too slow because of it and it had no chance of working.

 

[hoopsjock]

Great post KJ but that 2nd video isn't a soft hedge, it's dropping the big and not hedging at all.

If this is a personnel issue, explain to me why Plumlee and Turner begged coach Stotts to be more aggressive in his pick and roll coverages and Stotts wouldn't really let them. Every once in awhile Stotts will have a game where he does something different, like the previous game against Houston.

My point all along has been that no defense works every time, against every team, against every player, and in every situation. I think Stotts' defenses are mostly predictable which is the worst way to play defense if the offensive player knows exactly what we're going to do practically every screen that is set. I'd understand being stubborn to change more if we were talking about a top-15 defense. You start out in training camp and preseason learning multiple defensive strategies and implementing them throughout the season so the players are prepared to run them better in the playoffs when it's really needed. Last year is a perfect example, we made the WCF and tried to do something defensively they hadn't tried all year and the rotations were a split second too slow because of it and it had no chance of working.

And I'm sorry but I cringe that it was a big deal that the Blazers had ONE practice where they focused on defense the whole time! It makes me wonder why the players thought that was a big deal and doesn't give me confidence that it's a high enough priority the rest of the season.

 

[CupWizier]

No Cup.
Hailblazers asked DDolla if he ever played basketball. Not Bones. Bones just chimed in with "isn't it obvious".
You have to admit as insufferable as @BonesJones and @hoopsjock are about Terry Stotts they both know basketball and have obviously played the game. They know what they are talking about. I have different opinions about things than they do but those guys are paying attention for sure.

ah, okay. Like I said, I just kind of skimmed through this thread as there was way to much arguing from the usual suspects.

I avoid the game threads on game day and might check them out after a game.

 

[CupWizier]

And I'm sorry but I cringe that it was a big deal that the Blazers had ONE practice where they focused on defense the whole time! It makes me wonder why the players thought that was a big deal and doesn't give me confidence that it's a high enough priority the rest of the season.

Who said it was a big deal? And who said it was only ONE time? I know they mentioned that they had a practice working on defense a few games back, but never got the impression anyone was making it a big deal and that it was the only time. I also know that they have mentioned with the schedule it's been hard to have many practices. Seems like you are emphasizing these points that weren't necessarily ever said. Do you have an article that supports that?

 

[Tince]

Yet, you're saying the people you're arguing against wouldn't be good coaches.

I fucking hate when someone turns to the "you think you could do better" crap. Much like what you're saying I'd be a horrible head coach in the NBA. That doesn't mean any of us are disqualified from critiquing a basketball game. If this post from you is truly how you feel don't present your other post in a way that accuses those opposed to you in the same light.

1) I don't think I ever said the people who have a different point of view than me wouldn't be good coaches. I said I would not be and that I would like to see them try. (Edit) I'd also like to note I didn't randomly tell some person I'd like to see them try to coach out of nowhere, I did it after they said Stotts knew no more than most people on here. They brought up the subject of message board posters being as good as an NBA coach, not me.

2) I LOVE that people point out other ideas and are critical. Any board where people agree would be boring and I respect those on here who challenge my view point.

It sounds like I need to do a better job at not making it personal because I truly never want to do that. On the same token, when people on here talk down to me or call me names, why don't you respond to them in this same mamner? I've been called an idiot, stupid, blind, etc on here and I don't believe I've ever responded in that fashion; I try to turn it back to basketball. I appreciate you holding me accountable (seriously) and I will try and be bette in the future.

 

[Tince]

Lol, or maybe a youth basketball team first so we can critique them.

In some ways youth baketball might be harder than being an NBA coach!

 

[kjironman1]

Great post KJ but that 2nd video isn't a soft hedge, it's dropping the big and not hedging at all.

I don't know? The big is in the circle? Maybe free throw line would be a better look but he ends up at the free throw line contesting the shot. I'm my book this is a "Soft hedge". He is available to cover both ways on a pass and can get in front of the drive. The PF is Boxing out on the shot and the SF has his man. They essentially forced the mid range. Stotts does this all the time as well as just about every coach in the league. The video purposely stops before the bucket. On that play the shot fell.

As the game goes on though defense needs to tighten up. When in the last 5 mins of a close game a soft hedge is not a good thing to do at all. You have to expel more energy and contest harder. This is where the Blazers actually have been better with Tolliver on the floor. Tolliver gives max effort and is faster. The problem is he is not big enough and can be exploited in the paint. Collins or Skal would be a better choice. With Whiteside on the court teams make that pass at the three point line and the shot is WIDE open. Against Houston Harden was missing the shots. Whideside cannot move that fast. Hassan has quickness for blocking shots but his foot/lateral movement is just not fast enough for a hard hedge.

Just my opinion but the personnel available are just not gonna be able to do this at this level consistently. The NBA is full of very good players that will torch you if you are a step slow. When you start talking about teams like the Lakers and Clippers and Bucks? Well the answer is pretty obvious. Blazers lack depth and talent right now.

 

[kjironman1]

In some ways youth baketball might be harder than being an NBA coach!

Seriously! Don't you know it. "Please.... Just.... Dribble... The.... Ball.... With... One.... Hand."

 

[CupWizier]

Seriously! Don't you know it. "Please.... Just.... Dribble... The.... Ball.... With... One.... Hand."

My biggest challenge was coaching KBA basketball as it was a coed teams consisting of 3rd, 4th and 5th graders. I had a little 3rd grade girl that never played and she would guard my son bringing the ball up court even though they were on the same team, lol. Drove my son crazy.

 

[kjironman1]

Who said it was a big deal? And who said it was only ONE time? I know they mentioned that they had a practice working on defense a few games back, but never got the impression anyone was making it a big deal and that it was the only time. I also know that they have mentioned with the schedule it's been hard to have many practices. Seems like you are emphasizing these points that weren't necessarily ever said. Do you have an article that supports that?

I think even more so the team did indeed need to spend special time on defense and they did do just that. Stotts should be commended for that IMO.
The thing is most of the time available is for strength and athleticism. Stretching and treatment of injuries that are never talked about. A sore finger, toe, Little is dealing with back issues. When the team has an extra day which does not happen often they can do a full practice. During that practice what do you decide to address? How many talk about the offense? maybe run plays that they don't have fit into this group yet? How long will CJ be out now? Will the next practice be about getting 1M some better looks? Trent needs some practice too? We all want Little on the court but every time he is out there players are telling him where to be.

The team gets 4-5 days spread out over a month during the season at the most. How many can you put only on defense?

 

[James lamphear]

Eh, even the best ran zones will still have those major weaknesses. Why do you think no one consistently runs it?

Any defense has there weakness and yes the zone has there weakness but last night they wasn't even close running it correctly.

 

[tlongII]

What the fuck? Dude was questionable with the flu and has come out and balled out...

He was horrible at the end of the 1st half start of 2nd half.

 

[hoopsjock]

1) I don't think I ever said the people who have a different point of view than me wouldn't be good coaches. I said I would not be and that I would like to see them try. (Edit) I'd also like to note I didn't randomly tell some person I'd like to see them try to coach out of nowhere, I did it after they said Stotts knew no more than most people on here. They brought up the subject of message board posters being as good as an NBA coach, not me.

2) I LOVE that people point out other ideas and are critical. Any board where people agree would be boring and I respect those on here who challenge my view point.

It sounds like I need to do a better job at not making it personal because I truly never want to do that. On the same token, when people on here talk down to me or call me names, why don't you respond to them in this same mamner? I've been called an idiot, stupid, blind, etc on here and I don't believe I've ever responded in that fashion; I try to turn it back to basketball. I appreciate you holding me accountable (seriously) and I will try and be bette in the future.

When we were all having a conversation and you say something like "I'd love to see you guys coach" or whatever I took that as me being included in that. It's hard not to in that instance since it was pretty obvious what you were talking about. So that is why I called out this particular post while not others that aren't directed at me. I'm not policing what you can say, just trying to state that if you're playing devil's advocate that statements like that don't really help your case.

 

[hoopsjock]

Who said it was a big deal? And who said it was only ONE time? I know they mentioned that they had a practice working on defense a few games back, but never got the impression anyone was making it a big deal and that it was the only time. I also know that they have mentioned with the schedule it's been hard to have many practices. Seems like you are emphasizing these points that weren't necessarily ever said. Do you have an article that supports that?

I don't need articles to formulate my opinion based on what is said. Most of the players were talking on social media and they played interviews during the next game talking about the one practice. It's the same with the game in which coach made them watch a whole quarter of game film one time.

In my opinion, if defense and film study was more of a priority it wouldn't even be mentioned or weird that they had to do those things.

 

[CupWizier]

I don't need articles to formulate my opinion based on what is said. Most of the players were talking on social media and they played interviews during the next game talking about the one practice. It's the same with the game in which coach made them watch a whole quarter of game film one time.

In my opinion, if defense and film study was more of a priority it wouldn't even be mentioned or weird that they had to do those things.

I heard the same stuff and feel you are sensationalizing it and taking it out of context. We all know your opinion on Stotts and your bias against him.

 

[hoopsjock]

I don't know? The big is in the circle? Maybe free throw line would be a better look but he ends up at the free throw line contesting the shot. I'm my book this is a "Soft hedge". He is available to cover both ways on a pass and can get in front of the drive. The PF is Boxing out on the shot and the SF has his man. They essentially forced the mid range. Stotts does this all the time as well as just about every coach in the league. The video purposely stops before the bucket. On that play the shot fell.

As the game goes on though defense needs to tighten up. When in the last 5 mins of a close game a soft hedge is not a good thing to do at all. You have to expel more energy and contest harder. This is where the Blazers actually have been better with Tolliver on the floor. Tolliver gives max effort and is faster. The problem is he is not big enough and can be exploited in the paint. Collins or Skal would be a better choice. With Whiteside on the court teams make that pass at the three point line and the shot is WIDE open. Against Houston Harden was missing the shots. Whideside cannot move that fast. Hassan has quickness for blocking shots but his foot/lateral movement is just not fast enough for a hard hedge.

Just my opinion but the personnel available are just not gonna be able to do this at this level consistently. The NBA is full of very good players that will torch you if you are a step slow. When you start talking about teams like the Lakers and Clippers and Bucks? Well the answer is pretty obvious. Blazers lack depth and talent right now.

KJ, that is not a hedge. Not even close, no matter how you try to justify it as soft or not. Next time I see you I'll try to show you why.

And your post ignores the main two points of my whole post. I'll say them again in hopes that you actually read it this time.

1) Blazers have played this same defense almost exclusively for the last 8 seasons now under Stotts. Multiple different lineups, personnel, and with players more suited for different styles. Plumlee is one of the better hedge bigs in the league and he was mostly forced to drop and not pressure the ball handler in the pick and roll. So when you say Hassan can't do it you are ignoring the previous 7 years.

2) Soft hedges don't always work. Hard hedges don't always work. Traps don't always work. Dropping the big doesn't always work. There is a reason why teams run a lot of pick and roll because it's hard to defend. If I'm the ball handler and I know exactly what the defense is going to do when I call for a screen it makes it easier to attack. If I get a screen and I have no idea if the other team is going to trap me, or soft hedge, or drop coverage, or go under the screen, or go over the screen, or whatever then I have to take a moment to react and think about what I'm going to do next. That split second of having to think versus not having to can be the difference of a turnover or missed shot here or there and could effect a close game if just one possession is altered. I believe the best strategy is to mix it up throughout the game. Just one game prior they did this brilliantly on Harden but the very next game against a player like Luka we don't really attempt to try to take him out of the game? That doesn't make sense to me why we'd just go back to dropping the big. If they would've done that against Houston we would've lost that game.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

A lot of the times, Dallas scores because Hassan tries to block everything. Stats don’t tell the whole story. And often, even if he gets the block, they score.

His job is to block the damn ball so it doesn't go in the basket! He has a Herculean task back there as other teams' guards come past our guards like they weren't even there, all day long. Is Hassan supposed to block the shot or affect it and then still get turned around and get the rebound or find the loose ball? We wouldn't even be close in any of these games without Whiteside.

 

[hoopsjock]

I heard the same stuff and feel you are sensationalizing it and taking it out of context. We all know your opinion on Stotts and your bias against him.

See this is why I don't like having conversations with you. I never tried to tell you how to interpret those situations. I'm simply stating what my opinion is and you call me biased. I'm certainly entitled to my opinion and so are you but that doesn't mean mine is wrong because I don't like the coach.