Scoot Henderson thread (1 Viewer)

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Tince said:
Same!

I'm not against trading Ant at all. No player is untradable on this roster!
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I think that there’s going to be a team that thinks he can be a star PG. He’s pretty much in the same tier as Maxey, but Maxey will be getting a near max deal imo.

Raptors are now out, but I still think a team like the Pistons would offer 2 1sts for Ant. Ant would instantly be an upgrade over VanVleet and would be their starting PG. Magic would also be a great destination. That’s a few teams off the top of my head.
 
BankTeller said:
I think that there’s going to be a team that thinks he can be a star PG. He’s pretty much in the same tier as Maxey, but Maxey will be getting a near max deal imo.

Raptors are now out, but I still think a team like the Pistons would offer 2 1sts for Ant. Ant would instantly be an upgrade over VanVleet and would be their starting PG. Magic would also be a great destination. That’s a few teams off the top of my head.
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I don't know what VanVleet and the Pistons have to do with each other but other than that, I'm hoping for either a big haul for Ant or for us to hold onto him at least for now.
 
blazerkor said:
I don't know what VanVleet and the Pistons have to do with each other but other than that, I'm hoping for either a big haul for Ant or for us to hold onto him at least for now.
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Posing the Rockets as a possibility as well, sorry forgot to mention them.
 
BankTeller said:
I think that there’s going to be a team that thinks he can be a star PG. He’s pretty much in the same tier as Maxey, but Maxey will be getting a near max deal imo.

Raptors are now out, but I still think a team like the Pistons would offer 2 1sts for Ant. Ant would instantly be an upgrade over VanVleet and would be their starting PG. Magic would also be a great destination. That’s a few teams off the top of my head.
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Personally, I'm not interested in giving up a very good 24 year old player for multiple unknown firsts, as missing on those would kill us even if Sharpe/Scoot do pan out. If Ant can land us a very good forward/center, I'm very interested! Orlando might make some sense in that regard.
 
Tince said:
Personally, I'm not interested in giving up a very good 24 year old player for multiple unknown firsts, as missing on those would kill us even if Sharpe/Scoot do pan out. If Ant can land us a very good forward/center, I'm very interested! Orlando might make some sense in that regard.
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Obviously, you aren’t trading him for just 1sts. The Rockets have multiple forwards, the Magic and Pistons have front court players as well.
 
BankTeller said:
Obviously, you aren’t trading him for just 1sts. The Rockets have multiple forwards, the Magic and Pistons have front court players as well.
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I didn't know it was obvious either. If you're trading for a player and draft picks, why would you not mention that player?
Unless it's another Keon Johnson, in which case that's basically just 1sts.
 
BankTeller said:
Obviously, you aren’t trading him for just 1sts. The Rockets have multiple forwards, the Magic and Pistons have front court players as well.
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I want a clear cut, high quality starting forward/center in return for Ant. I'm having a hard time finding who Houston would give up that fits that need in an Ant trade.
 
Tince said:
Correct. In the here and now, I don't think Portland has the luxury of missing on a trade that involves the best (or one of the best) players on their roster. I'm unsure why anyone would be ok with the team only getting back marginal return for a player of Ants skill, contract, and age. I certainly wouldn't bank on the outcome similar to the Warriors trade of Monta Ellis and their current roster to justify simply unloading Ant to provide more minutes for Scoot/Sharpe.
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So genuine question for you.

Despite this board, or at least a large portion of it, valuing Simons at a high level, why does it appear that the rest of the league does not? Simons and Herro are very similar players and during the summer when there were rumors about the blazers shopping Simons and the Heat supposedly trying to get value for Herro so they couple flip it for Dame, nobody was biting. So what does the league know that we do not?
 
Natebishop3 said:
So genuine question for you.

Despite this board, or at least a large portion of it, valuing Simons at a high level, why does it appear that the rest of the league does not? Simons and Herro are very similar players and during the summer when there were rumors about the blazers shopping Simons and the Heat supposedly trying to get value for Herro so they couple flip it for Dame, nobody was biting. So what does the league know that we do not?
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It could be the opposite of the last question you asked. Maybe you should ask: What do the Blazers know about Ant that the rest of the league doesn't? In general, I do agree that it appears teams that have the Ant, Maxey, Herro type players value them more than the rest of league. Maybe other teams feel giving their resources towards bigger players is a better value. It's why I'm 100% open to trading any of our guards for a very good forward/center, Ant included.

What I find even more interesting is that Ant isn't the only backcourt on the Blazers that appears to have underwhelming trade value around the league. Toronto wanted multiple firsts on top of Sharpe to give up OG and the Nets wouldn't move off Bridges for him. There didn't appear to be a great offer for Scoot on draft night either. Maybe we over-value our young players in Portland.
 
Tince said:
It could be the opposite of the last question you asked. Maybe you should ask: What do the Blazers know about Ant that the rest of the league doesn't? In general, I do agree that it appears teams that have the Ant, Maxey, Herro type players value them more than the rest of league. Maybe other teams feel giving their resources towards bigger players is a better value. It's why I'm 100% open to trading any of our guards for a very good forward/center, Ant included.

What I find even more interesting is that Ant isn't the only backcourt on the Blazers that appears to have underwhelming trade value around the league. Toronto wanted multiple firsts on top of Sharpe to give up OG and the Nets wouldn't move off Bridges for him. There didn't appear to be a great offer for Scoot on draft night either. Maybe we over-value our young players in Portland.
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I don’t believe Sharpe was ever offered for Bridges. I also don’t think the offer to Toronto was Sharpe. It was the 7th pick. I’m not sure who the raptors would
Have selected with that pick.
 
Tince said:
Correct. In the here and now, I don't think Portland has the luxury of missing on a trade that involves the best (or one of the best) players on their roster. I'm unsure why anyone would be ok with the team only getting back marginal return for a player of Ants skill, contract, and age. I certainly wouldn't bank on the outcome similar to the Warriors trade of Monta Ellis and their current roster to justify simply unloading Ant to provide more minutes for Scoot/Sharpe.
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and I'm unsure why you'd want to frame the debate as Portland could miss on a trade so they shouldn't trade. I haven't seen anybody suggest the Blazers should make a bad trade. In fact, I haven't seen anybody say the Blazers should trade Ant no matter what kind of return they get; I'm not sure where that straw man came from but maybe I missed some conversation

what's clear to me is that by skills and by size, the Blazers have 2 PG's; 3 if you count Mays. Shifting Ant to starting SG doesn't make any long-term sense at all. It never has, just like it didn't make sense with CJ. And if Scoot continues his trajectory, which I think he will, the Blazers definitely have a Monta/Curry issue on their hands
 
Natebishop3 said:
So genuine question for you.

Despite this board, or at least a large portion of it, valuing Simons at a high level, why does it appear that the rest of the league does not? Simons and Herro are very similar players and during the summer when there were rumors about the blazers shopping Simons and the Heat supposedly trying to get value for Herro so they couple flip it for Dame, nobody was biting. So what does the league know that we do not?
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I think Ants value has gone up. He’s producing as the number 1 this year at a very high level. Good part for us is we have another guy right behind him pushing him for his spot, amazing position for us to be in!

scoot is hungry he isn’t going to want to come off the bench much longer, he wants to be elite (which is a good thing). Sharpe might be willing to come off the bench but I think that’s a bad idea he needs to be pushed in order to help him to fulfill his superstar potential.

I think Scoots emergence means we should trade Ant now preferably for a starting PF. What does an Ant/Grant or Ant plus picks get you?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don’t believe Sharpe was ever offered for Bridges. I also don’t think the offer to Toronto was Sharpe. It was the 7th pick. I’m not sure who the raptors would
Have selected with that pick.
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It's possible he wasn't. Trade offers that don't go through are almost never confirmed.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
I think Ants value has gone up. He’s producing as the number 1 this year at a very high level.
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might be the case but that seems like assumption at this point

Ant is "producing at a high level" because he's taking a lot of shots. He's averaging 6 more points/game and 4 more FGA/game. so that increase in production is welded to a simple increase in shot opportunities. If Ant 'qualified', he'd be 11th in scoring but 6th in FGA. The rest of the NBA can do that math.

and I'm not sure how much 'producing as a #1' on a bad team enhances a player's value. And, Ant has only played in 11 games, 8 or which were at home. And, Portland's record without Ant is 7-13 (.350) and with Ant is 2-9 (.182). Portland's record is 9-18 with Grant; 2-9 with Ant. And yes, these are all small sample sizes but all these might be some of the gauges a team uses when deciding what value to assign Ant

to be fair, Ant has actually ramped up his efficiency a bit while increasing his usage and shot attempts. That's less common than the opposite. But to this point Ant hasn't positively impacted Portland's record with his increased production; that outcome has been the opposite as well
 
wizenheimer said:
might be the case but that seems like assumption at this point

Ant is "producing at a high level" because he's taking a lot of shots. He's averaging 6 more points/game and 4 more FGA/game. so that increase in production is welded to a simple increase in shot opportunities. If Ant 'qualified', he'd be 11th in scoring but 6th in FGA. The rest of the NBA can do that math.

and I'm not sure how much 'producing as a #1' on a bad team enhances a player's value. And, Ant has only played in 11 games, 8 or which were at home. And, Portland's record without Ant is 7-13 (.350) and with Ant is 2-9 (.182). Portland's record is 9-18 with Grant; 2-9 with Ant. And yes, these are all small sample sizes but all these might be some of the gauges a team uses when deciding what value to assign Ant

to be fair, Ant has actually ramped up his efficiency a bit while increasing his usage and shot attempts. That's less common than the opposite. But to this point Ant hasn't positively impacted Portland's record with his increased production; that outcome has been the opposite as well
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Well shit good post but scorers have always been important in this league especially guys who can score at all three levels. I’m not saying he’s a top 10-15 player but his scoring is elite level and still desired in today’s NBA. He should have good value especially at his age
 
BankTeller said:
I think that there’s going to be a team that thinks he can be a star PG. He’s pretty much in the same tier as Maxey, but Maxey will be getting a near max deal imo.

Raptors are now out, but I still think a team like the Pistons would offer 2 1sts for Ant. Ant would instantly be an upgrade over VanVleet and would be their starting PG. Magic would also be a great destination. That’s a few teams off the top of my head.
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2 firsts ( lotto protected) is not a great offer for Ant.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
2 firsts ( lotto protected) is not a great offer for Ant.
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I think Ant should be traded but I tend to agree with that. If it's two first's, and the picks are the main return, one should have the potential to slip into the lottery so lighter protections like top-4 on one of the picks.

I'd rather see the return being a really solid front court player that fits the long term timeline.
 
wizenheimer said:
I think Ant should be traded but I tend to agree with that. If it's two first's, and the picks are the main return, one should have the potential to slip into the lottery so lighter protections like top-4 on one of the picks.

I'd rather see the return being a really solid front court player that fits the long term timeline.
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Lauri Markkanen
 
OneSport3 said:
Lauri Markkanen
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Don't think it makes sense for Ainge unless we include multiple picks which doesn't make sense for us. Jarace Walker is interesting. Teams like Houston, Orlando and Detroit make sense. I bet we could get Ausar plus more from Detroit for Ant. Maybe Duren? I think Portland should get super aggressive with shopping Grant. They can afford to wait until next season with Ant.
 
One aspect of Scoot that doesn't seem to get mentioned very often (specifically at least) is how wide he is.

For me when I saw him at the summer league that was what stood out to me. He made Sharpe look kind of small in that way. I think he's about as wide as Jabari Walker.

When other teams' announcers comment on his physique they mention how he looks like a 25-year-old, which I believe is mostly to do with his well-defined muscles.
They also often mention Scoot's athleticism.

Something we're beginning to notice is Scoot using his strength and width to methodically work his way to the basket, a la Luka Doncic, then contort (if necessary) his body and flip it in.

I wonder if seeing the devastating effectiveness of Luka Doncic in person perhaps gave Scoot an alternative way for his own game which was expected to be based on speed and athleticism.

Not relating to his body width, but also reminiscent of Doncic was his patience waiting for his teammates to get open.

In the last game, we saw a couple very Doncic-like passes, one where Doncic immediately came to mind (to me at least) when he wrapped a seemingly impossible pass around defenders to Matisse Thybulle under the basket.

The other was the puppet-master-like fashion in which he pushed defenders towards the basket, backed the ball out slowly, then quickly whipped a pass to an open Blazer.
Doncic-like.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
2 firsts ( lotto protected) is not a great offer for Ant.
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Fair. I meant 2 1sts in addition to the players of value (not filler) we would get back. I don’t think he will be traded until maybe next deadline, and a lot of moving pieces will switch teams in that time period, so it’s hard to just plop together 1-2 names to attach to 2 1sts.
 
wizenheimer said:
I think Ant should be traded but I tend to agree with that. If it's two first's, and the picks are the main return, one should have the potential to slip into the lottery so lighter protections like top-4 on one of the picks.

I'd rather see the return being a really solid front court player that fits the long term timeline.
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Sometime next year, would you consider Ant + Grant for Brown, unprotected 1sts in ‘25, ‘27, and the ‘27 ATL 2nd?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Brown...? Wait, are you talking about Jaylen Brown? You think the C's would offer him and 2 firsts for Ant/Grant?
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I mean Ant is looking really good but yeah, I just don't see Brad Stevens paying that much for Ant and Jerami.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Brown...? Wait, are you talking about Jaylen Brown? You think the C's would offer him and 2 firsts for Ant/Grant?
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I AM talking Jaylen Brown lol. Yeah, the whole idea makes me sound f’ing crazy. My logic was that Jaylen’s contract will be $50+m over the next five seasons—if Jaylen doesn’t improve his playmaking and handle or if Boston doesn’t make the finals, they’re kind of stuck.

People talk about the Grant contract being terrible, but Jaylen’s is twice as much. Idc what people think, Jaylen is NOT twice the player.

Yeah, it takes a level of desperation on their part to offer this package. But without the two 1sts, I find myself disinterested in a deal with Boston anyway. It was just a possibility I came up with for next season.
 
BankTeller said:
I AM talking Jaylen Brown lol. Yeah, the whole idea makes me sound f’ing crazy. My logic was that Jaylen’s contract will be $50+m over the next five seasons—if Jaylen doesn’t improve his playmaking and handle or if Boston doesn’t make the finals, they’re kind of stuck.

People talk about the Grant contract being terrible, but Jaylen’s is twice as much. Idc what people think, Jaylen is NOT twice the player.

Yeah, it takes a level of desperation on their part to offer this package. But without the two 1sts, I find myself disinterested in a deal with Boston anyway. It was just a possibility I came up with for next season.
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We know Joe has a relationship with them given the Jrue trade.
 
I think to get Brown you would need 3 frp, Grant, and Ant before they would even pick up the phone. Not interested.
 
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