Politics The Joe Biden Thread

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Here's a thought...can we please at least wait until all the facts come in before we pass judgement?
 
beast crnjo said:
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No, even in this very thread, the excuses are flowing for trump wheras the same group wanted trump to go to prison, and repeated rumors that he had 'nuclear secrets' as though they were fact.
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Given the known facts of the cases, Trump took specific documents, he hid those documents and refused to return them and ignore subpoenas. Common sense here says that he wanted those documents for some reason. Speculate all you want on why, but I can't imagine a scenario where this isn't based on some level of corruption. The actual information in the documents is not really that important for our purposes, they were classified and should be respected as such. So downplaying the importance of these documents is disingenuous.

Biden had some leftover documents that his team found and immediately turned over, and they are now cooperating with the investigation. Common sense here says that Biden had nothing to hide ans might need a refresher course on proper document handling and storage.

Based on my limited knowledge of the situation and the history of each person, Trump probably does deserve to go to jail and Biden probably does not, but hey that's what investigations are for right? How about we demand EACH candidate follows the law and cooperates with the investigations or they should rot in a jail.
 
donkiez said:
Given the known facts of the cases, Trump took specific documents, he hid those documents and refused to return them and ignore subpoenas. Common sense here says that he wanted those documents for some reason. Speculate all you want on why, but I can't imagine a scenario where this isn't based on some level of corruption. The actual information in the documents is not really that important for our purposes, they were classified and should be respected as such. So downplaying the importance of these documents is disingenuous.

Biden had some leftover documents that his team found and immediately turned over, and they are now cooperating with the investigation. Common sense here says that Biden had nothing to hide ans might need a refresher course on proper document handling and storage.

Based on my limited knowledge of the situation and the history of each person, Trump probably does deserve to go to jail and Biden probably does not, but hey that's what investigations are for right? How about we demand EACH candidate follows the law and cooperates with the investigations or they should rot in a jail.
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Absolutely. If it is found that Biden is up to no good he should definitely be punished.

But odds are this is far less of an actual security risk than Clinton's money shot or any single day of Trump's term.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Absolutely. If it is found that Biden is up to no good he should definitely be punished.

But odds are this is far less of an actual security risk than Clinton's money shot or any single day of Trump's term.
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Do you think some in his own party will use this to encourage him not to run again? I don't think it should be an issue at all but Im not convinced Joe will have total support from the DNC fro 2024?
 
Hoopguru said:
Do you think some in his own party will use this to encourage him not to run again? I don't think it should be an issue at all but Im not convinced Joe will have total support from the DNC fro 2024?
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If they don't support Biden then Bernie Sanders will be a huge threat to win the nomination.

So they'll support Biden, just like last time. There is nobody else who moves the needle.

Just my opinion.
 
I'd prefer Biden didn't rerun.
 
Nobody talented and young wants the thankless job of being president. The job just doesn't attract talent anymore.
 
riverman said:
Nobody talented and young wants the thankless job of being president. The job just doesn't attract talent anymore.
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We need to pay our politicians better in general. The president should be paid like a top CEO.

Congressional salary should probably be around $1 million per year... With lifetime healthcare and pension...

There is no other way to get away from corruption.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We need to pay our politicians better in general. The president should be paid like a top CEO.

Congressional salary should probably be around $1 million per year... With lifetime healthcare and pension...

There is no other way to get away from corruption.
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Congresspeople and Senators already get a life time healthcare and pension don't they? And some of them, many of them, make millions.
 
Chris Craig said:
Congresspeople and Senators already get a life time healthcare and pension don't they? And some of them, many of them, make millions.
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Yes on pension, I believe.

They don't make millions on salary. They make millions by being corrupt and siding with corporations against us. That's the financial incentive in our system.

If we want smart, talented, young people to actually work for US, we need to pay them as well as the private sector.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes on pension, I believe.

They don't make millions on salary. They make millions by being corrupt and siding with corporations against us. That's the financial incentive in our system.

If we want smart, talented, young people to actually work for US, we need to pay them as well as the private sector.
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Thank god we have term limits on pres.
Canada has none even prime min.
We need term limits on congress, it would help gov sell outs to lobbyists for the long haul.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes on pension, I believe.

They don't make millions on salary. They make millions by being corrupt and siding with corporations against us. That's the financial incentive in our system.

If we want smart, talented, young people to actually work for US, we need to pay them as well as the private sector.
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There would be a lot more people running for that kind of money.

I get what you are saying. What's to stop these people being greedy and being corrupt anyway?
 
Hoopguru said:
Thank god we have term limits on pres.
Canada has none even prime min.
We need term limits on congress, it would help gov sell outs to lobbyists for the long haul.
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Yes, we badly need term limits for the Congress and Senate. Some people have been in office since before I was born. Fucking ridiculous.
 
Chris Craig said:
There would be a lot more people running for that kind of money.

I get what you are saying. What's to stop these people being greedy and being corrupt anyway?
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They would have competition from more competent people. The people we actually want have no interest in doing the job because you can't make similar money in politics as in the private sector without being corrupt.
 
Chris Craig said:
Yes, we badly need term limits for the Congress and Senate. Some people have been in office since before I was born. Fucking ridiculous.
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I'm honestly alright with that as long as they are good. Term limits just throw out the baby with the bathwater, IMO.
 
Hoopguru said:
Thank god we have term limits on pres.
Canada has none even prime min.
We need term limits on congress, it would help gov sell outs to lobbyists for the long haul.
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Unfortunately there is no shortage of people who would gladly sell out. Term limits just gives more of them more of an opportunity to bend us over a barrel.
 
Imagine a world with no term limits on president. Obama would have likely gotten a 3rd term...

Would Dubya have beaten Bill Clinton? Maybe... But I kind of doubt it...

Say what you want about Clinton and Obama but they were FAR better than what came after.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes on pension, I believe.

They don't make millions on salary. They make millions by being corrupt and siding with corporations against us. That's the financial incentive in our system.

If we want smart, talented, young people to actually work for US, we need to pay them as well as the private sector.
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Since when do rich people turn down dirty money?
 
calvin natt said:
Since when do rich people turn down dirty money?
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It happens all the time. Unfortunately that story doesn't sell newspapers or generate clicks...

You literally aren't allowed to turn down dirty money in Congress. Your party will not support you if you do that and you'll have trouble getting anything passed.

Congress members are required to collect a minimum amount from a preselected list of wealthy people. To do so requires they personally spend over 30hrs per week on the phone with those wealthy people.

Term limits do nothing for us. And they might actually do more harm than good by flushing out the few diamonds in the rough...
 
Phatguysrule said:
It happens all the time. Unfortunately that story doesn't sell newspapers or generate clicks...

You literally aren't allowed to turn down dirty money in Congress. Your party will not support you if you do that and you'll have trouble getting anything passed.

Congress members are required to collect a minimum amount from a preselected list of wealthy people. To do so requires they personally spend over 30hrs per week on the phone with those wealthy people.

Term limits do nothing for us. And they might actually do more harm than good by flushing out the few diamonds in the rough...
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How about we just don’t let them accept any money other than their salaries by requiring a fairly simple, yet harsh penalty if they do so? Why can’t public figures be required to provide financial records? And if they get caught they go to prison? Instead of just paying them millions of dollars in salary? It feels like if my sons didn’t like their allowance so they went out and stole money, so instead I raise their allowance 8x to appease them. Fuck that. Next time you steal you’re fucking screwed.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm honestly alright with that as long as they are good. Term limits just throw out the baby with the bathwater, IMO.
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The problem is alot of them that have been there that long aren't good. We need to refresh our government with new blood. These politicians that have been in forever bring our grandparents politics. We need our government to better represent the ideas of current generations as we move into the future.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It happens all the time. Unfortunately that story doesn't sell newspapers or generate clicks...

You literally aren't allowed to turn down dirty money in Congress. Your party will not support you if you do that and you'll have trouble getting anything passed.

Congress members are required to collect a minimum amount from a preselected list of wealthy people. To do so requires they personally spend over 30hrs per week on the phone with those wealthy people.

Term limits do nothing for us. And they might actually do more harm than good by flushing out the few diamonds in the rough...
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Screw that. If I was in there, I wouldn't be fucking bought. Not for a penny, not for a million. People need to have some fucking integrity.
 
calvin natt said:
How about we just don’t let them accept any money other than their salaries by requiring a fairly simple, yet harsh penalty if they do so? Why can’t public figures be required to provide financial records? And if they get caught they go to prison? Instead of just paying them millions of dollars in salary? It feels like if my sons didn’t like their allowance so they went out and stole money, so instead I raise their allowance 8x to appease them. Fuck that. Next time you steal you’re fucking screwed.
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Agree 100%. Disallow them from taking any money at all. It won't happen, thanks to Citizens United, but I agree that's how it should be. I'm just not sure how to make that happen.

We should have publicly funded elections for positions that pay competitive wages and restrict members from working in the private sector of any field associated with any of their rulings, votes, or committees for 5 years after leaving office.

But even if we can't restrict taking money we should still pay competitive wages to get the kind of leadership we want.
 
I think they should all be paid like teachers and have the same perks.....it's not about money for those guys...if they didn't have it they couldn't campaign to begin with...it's about power and influence and what it buys after the job that seems to be the goalpost.
 
Chris Craig said:
Screw that. If I was in there, I wouldn't be fucking bought. Not for a penny, not for a million. People need to have some fucking integrity.
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Oh there are people who try that. They get nothing done and receive no support from the party and are replaced the following term.

Unless they are independently wealthy and can fund their own campaign and buy their way into committee leadership roles. Like Ron Wyden.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Oh there are people who try that. They get nothing done and receive no support from the party and are replaced the following term.

Unless they are independently wealthy and can fund their own campaign and buy their way into committee leadership roles. Like Ron Wyden.
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I least they served their term and leave knowing they didn't sell out.
 
Chris Craig said:
I least they served their term and leave knowing they didn't sell out.
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Agreed. That's what I'd do. Except I'd never run because an honest person doesn't stand a chance right now unless they are independently wealthy. And even then... Not so much...

And much better and smarter people than me see the same thing.

Democrats and Republicans have a larger monopoly than Pepsi or Coke.

We need better incentive for great people to run for leadership in this country.
 
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