Politics The Joe Biden Thread (5 Viewers)

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Jimmy Carter was building houses in his 90s.
My dad lived to 95 mentally alert to the final minutes of his life.
Biden's age is this year's "but her emails". Focus on that and not Trump's incompetence and criminality. My cat is more suited to be president than Trump.
 
jonnyboy said:
I understand you don’t like Trump. “I know you are but what am I???” doesn’t exactly apply in this case though. Your president is in a borderline vegetative state and your best defense of him is to pretend Trump is too, just because you cherry picked him slipping up once during his fifth speaking engagement in a day. It’s sort of just dishonest to even compare the two on that particular issue. Wouldn’t it be more constructive to criticize Trump on one of the many things that actually deserve criticism? Just because Joe Bidens brain doesn’t work anymore doesnt mean the same HAS to be true for Trump. It’s like calling Biden orange.
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Except Biden has gotten more done in his time in office than Trump did in his.

So whoever "Mush Brain's" handlers are they are far superior to the Orange Nazi's.
 
My hope is one day both sides that continuously comment on speaking flaws of both sides come to the realization that the percent of these flaws is extremely minute compared to the coherency of both and that people start pointing out the positives instead of the negatives.
My admittedly foolish dream is that everyone pointing to Trump and Bidens’ flaws start focusing on the things they say that is clear and concise. They both do this, yet it’s rarely, if ever, the point of posts.

Is anyone ever going to focus on the positives and try to sell them for the candidate of their choice instead of focusing on the negatives of the opposition???????
:banghead2::banghead2::banghead2:
 
jonnyboy said:
You do realize “old” and “dementia” are two different things right? They aren’t mutually exclusive. You seem to have a problem recognizing the president is an incoherent rambling mess, so you continually point to other people who are also old to prove some kind of point. Those old people aren’t senile. Joe Biden is. That is the difference.
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Don't care at this point. As long as he beats Trump.
 
jonnyboy said:
I understand you don’t like Trump. “I know you are but what am I???” doesn’t exactly apply in this case though. Your president is in a borderline vegetative state and your best defense of him is to pretend Trump is too, just because you cherry picked him slipping up once during his fifth speaking engagement in a day. It’s sort of just dishonest to even compare the two on that particular issue. Wouldn’t it be more constructive to criticize Trump on one of the many things that actually deserve criticism? Just because Joe Bidens brain doesn’t work anymore doesnt mean the same HAS to be true for Trump. It’s like calling Biden orange.
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You are a very bright individual and I respect more than a few of the viewpoints you bring to this forum, but what you are pushing is so blatantly false and I struggle with the idea that you actually believe the patently untrue stuff you've been pushing (i.e.; the standard MAGA/Russia Bot narrative). All side by side comparisons show a cognizant and aware president versus a rambling incoherent buffoon of an ex president. All available evidence refutes what you're trying to peddle. My investment accounts are doing better than they ever have. I see infrastructure work going on wherever I travel. I see a president who cares about something other than himself. I'm not sure if you just like to argue and think throwing a turd in the punch bowl is viable debate, but you're the one who needs to get a grip. Apparently a good chunk of America can't handle dealing with an actual functioning president and that's both sad and frightening. Personally, I don't need a loudmouth bully to make me feel better about myself......
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
You are a very bright individual and I respect more than a few of the viewpoints you bring to this forum, but what you are pushing is so blatantly false and I struggle with the idea that you actually believe the patently untrue stuff you've been pushing (i.e.; the standard MAGA/Russia Bot narrative). All side by side comparisons show a cognizant and aware president versus a rambling incoherent buffoon of an ex president. All available evidence refutes what you're trying to peddle. My investment accounts are doing better than they ever have. I see infrastructure work going on wherever I travel. I see a president who cares about something other than himself. I'm not sure if you just like to argue and think throwing a turd in the punch bowl is viable debate, but you're the one who needs to get a grip. Apparently a good chunk of America can't handle dealing with an actual functioning president and that's both sad and frightening. Personally, I don't need a loudmouth bully to make me feel better about myself......
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Thanks for being the voice of reason UCD. Best post of the thread. The truth is the truth.
 
I've been down in Mexico for a bit and even the Mexican people don't like what is going on at the border. They feel it gives them a bad name for the legitimate people who are trying to immigrate legally. It's surprising how many prefer Trump to Biden in terms of what they think is good for the US since so many of the people in this area are American or Canadian. They don't really like Trump's persona, but they like what he stands for. There feelings towards Biden seem mostly sad...or they laugh that he is the president. Some of them refer to him as 'abuelo con demencia', which since my Spanish is no muy bueno, I had to look up.

They are used to a lawless state and think that is coming to the US. One of the people I work out with down here, her nephew just disappeared in the middle of the night 8 years ago. No word, no clues, and the police did nothing.

It's disappointing that these are the two we have to choose from, but if I look at crime, the border, the drug situation, the foreign situations now versus the previous administration, I'll hold my nose and take Trump.
 


Arm yourselves with knowledge.

TLDR: Biden > Trump on jobs, GDP, unemployment statistics, and stock market/401k values.

Overall job numbers:

  • Biden: +14 million

  • Trump: -2.9 million
Overall manufacturing jobs:

  • Biden: +815,000

  • Trump: -154,000
Highest labor force numbers of presidency:

  • Biden: 167,930,000

  • Trump: 164,546,000
Lowest unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 3.4%

  • Trump: 3.5%
Highest unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 6.2%

  • Trump: 14.7%
Lowest black unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 4.7%

  • Trump: 5.3%
Highest black unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 9.9%

  • Trump: 16.8%
Lowest Hispanic unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 3.9%

  • Trump: 4%
Highest Hispanic unemployment of presidency:

  • Biden: 8.5%

  • Trump: 18.8%
Lowest woman unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 3.3%

  • Trump: 3.4%
Highest woman unemployment rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 6.1%

  • Trump: 16.2%
Lowest unemployment rate for those without a high school diploma of presidency:

  • Biden: 4.4%

  • Trump: 4.9%
Overall GDP increase in dollars:

  • Biden: +$5.6 trillion

  • Trump: +$2.9 trillion
Highest annual GDP growth rate of presidency:

  • Biden: 5.9%

  • Trump: 2.9%
Lowest annual GDP growth rate of presidency;

  • Biden: 2.1%

  • Trump: -2.8%
Highest Dow Jones Industrial Average:

  • Biden: $36,799.65

  • Trump: $31,041.13
Highest S&P 500:

  • Biden: $4796.56

  • Trump: $3,803.79
Highest Nasdaq:

  • Biden: $16,057.44

  • Trump: $13,067.48
EDIT:

Sources:

Total job and manufacturing job numbers: https://www.factcheck.org/2023/10/bidens-numbers-october-2023-update/

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/ces0000000001?output_view=net_1mth

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/

Labor force numbers: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CLF16OV

Black unemployment rate data: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000006

Hispanic unemployment rate data: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000009

Woman unemployment rate data: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000002

Less than high school diploma employment numbers: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14027659

GDP numbers: https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP

Stocks: https://www.google.com/finance/quot...o6FjeeCAxX8m2oFHd6zAAwQ3ecFegQIFxAb&window=5Y

https://www.google.com/finance/quot...p2ajeeCAxXhomoFHSODAg0Q3ecFegQIFRAb&window=5Y

https://www.google.com/finance/quot...NWnjeeCAxXSlGoFHUqZCgsQ3ecFegQIFxAb&window=5Y
 
TBpup said:
I've been down in Mexico for a bit and even the Mexican people don't like what is going on at the border. They feel it gives them a bad name for the legitimate people who are trying to immigrate legally. It's surprising how many prefer Trump to Biden in terms of what they think is good for the US since so many of the people in this area are American or Canadian. They don't really like Trump's persona, but they like what he stands for. There feelings towards Biden seem mostly sad...or they laugh that he is the president. Some of them refer to him as 'abuelo con demencia', which since my Spanish is no muy bueno, I had to look up.

They are used to a lawless state and think that is coming to the US. One of the people I work out with down here, her nephew just disappeared in the middle of the night 8 years ago. No word, no clues, and the police did nothing.

It's disappointing that these are the two we have to choose from, but if I look at crime, the border, the drug situation, the foreign situations now versus the previous administration, I'll hold my nose and take Trump.
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Where in Mexico are you?
 
I might believe rest of the data. But I will, not now nor ever, believe the data on unemployment. You can't have this high of a homelessless population in America and have unemployment that low. It just can't happen.
 
Road Ratt said:
I might believe rest of the data. But I will, not now nor ever, believe the data on unemployment. You can't have this high of a homelessless population in America and have unemployment that low. It just can't happen.
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Many homeless are actually employed. But even then, there aren't enough homeless to really impact the employment rates by much.

And even if so, the homeless problem is about the same under Biden as under Trump, so it would be a big differentiator for this data set.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Many homeless are actually employed. But even then, there aren't enough homeless to really impact the employment rates by much.

And even if so, the homeless problem is about the same under Biden as under Trump, so it would be a big differentiator for this data set.
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I may be wrong, but isn't the unemployment rate tied to people who collect unemployment compensation? When they are no longer able to collect unemployment don't they drop out of the count?
 
I did find the following from a quick Google search...

The unemployment rate measures the share of workers in the labor force who do not currently have a job but are actively looking for work. People who have not looked for work in the past four weeks are not included in this measure.
 
I doubt that a high percentage of the homeless I see are actively looking for work. Just my opinion.
 
tlongII said:
I may be wrong, but isn't the unemployment rate tied to people who collect unemployment compensation? When they are no longer able to collect unemployment don't they drop out of the count?
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I believe so, but I'm not 100% sure either.
 
tlongII said:
I doubt that a high percentage of the homeless I see are actively looking for work. Just my opinion.
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That would be more like the cars you see parked or the campers, etc. And probably not the broken down ones.
 
Road Ratt said:
I might believe rest of the data. But I will, not now nor ever, believe the data on unemployment. You can't have this high of a homelessless population in America and have unemployment that low. It just can't happen.
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tlongII said:
I doubt that a high percentage of the homeless I see are actively looking for work. Just my opinion.
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Everyone else is busting ass and finding jobs so they don't become part of the homeless count.
 
First, you have the impact of Title 42 to deal with, where summarily booting people straight back to Mexico was allowed due to covid.

These people didn't walk back to South America. They kept trying, with every crossing they tried being counted. It's important therefore not to look at crossings as people, people are people. The same person could attempt 50 crossings for all we know.

Second, about 8 million people left Venezuela 2022/3, the biggest ever migrant crisis in the history of the Americas and one of the largest in world history.

Many sought sanctuary in America, with some periods of 50% of all asylum claims being from Venezuelans. Venezuela refused to accept repatriations, so there was nowhere to send them back to. Under Title 42, emergency covid rules they were allowed to be summarily removed at the border to Mexico, but all that did is result in the afore mentioned attempts to come over and over again.

This changed in Oct '23, when Venezuela agreed to accept returns and Mexico agreed to allow immediate expulsion to Mexican ground and America started repatriations of any people deemed unwanted. Biden also added Venezuela to the list of countries like Cuba and Haiti, where if you are a national of the countries you are barred from seeking asylum in the US.

This should result in a big drop in asylum cases..... If it wasn't for the massive amount of backlog of asylum cases, about 4 years and 2 million people long, which needs more funding to deal with, which the US House will not pass because the numbers are a great electioneering tool.

Apprehensions at the border.

The large inflows of migrants didn't only come about after title 42 ended.<

For FY14, over 485,000 were apprehended at the border.

For FY15, over 335,000 were apprehended at the border.

For FY16, over 415,000 were apprehended at the border.

For FY17, over 310,000 were apprehended at the border.

For FY18, over 400,000 were apprehended at the border.

For FY19, over 850,000 were apprehended at the border.

For FY20, over 400,000 were apprehended at the border. Though, to be fair, COVID was going on at that time.

For FY21, over 1.7 million have been apprehended at the border.

For FY22, almost 2.4 million have been apprehended at the border.

For FY23, over 2.4 million have been apprehended at the border.

For FY24, it's projected that over 3 million will be apprehended at the border.

Any increased problems at the border are a result of people fleeing other countries and poor policy put in place during covid (not a bad idea during covid, but bad policy when not in a pandemic). And the result of said policy expiring.
 
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Road Ratt said:
I might believe rest of the data. But I will, not now nor ever, believe the data on unemployment. You can't have this high of a homelessless population in America and have unemployment that low. It just can't happen.
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In 2020, the U.S. Census Bureau counted 331.4 million people living in the United States; more than three-quarters (77.9%) or 258.3 million were adults, 18 years or older — a 10.1% increase from 234.6 million in 2010.

HUD released on December 15 the 2023 Annual Homeless Assessment Report (AHAR), Part 1, which provides estimates of homelessness in the U.S. The 2023 report estimates that approximately 653,100 people were experiencing homelessness on a single night in 2023 – a 12% increase (or about 70,650 more people) from 2022.

I'm no mathematician but it appears that the % of homeless to the total adult population is about 1/4th of 1 percent. Although I believe that the number of unemployed in this country is unconscionable it is not really a significant factor in the overall unemployment rate.
 
Road Ratt said:
You didn't even post a link to the supposed data you posted. Even if you did. I would never believe it. Our government lies about that data all the time. They don't want you to have a true number on the homeless, nor the true unemployment rate.
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So what is the correct homeless number?
 
Road Ratt said:
You didn't even post a link to the supposed data you posted. Even if you did. I would never believe it. Our government lies about that data all the time. They don't want you to have a true number on the homeless, nor the true unemployment rate.
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Kano John said:
https://endhomelessness.org/blog/hud-releases-2023-ahar-data-12-key-data-points-to-understand-the-current-state-of-homelessness-in-america/#:~:text=Several data points highlight the,-Time (PIT) Count.
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This is right in line with all of the numbers I've seen. About 500k before covid. I would expect that it would have gone up in this amount of time.

The reason it seems so bad is that they are being forced to live in our public spaces. If we got them in actual standing houses, apartments, or buildings the horrible reality of it would be invisible almost over night (and they'd all be in a much better situation).

We, as voters, have funded more than enough to solve the problem here in Oregon. It is now up to us to hold our representatives feet to the fire so they get it done.
 
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The jobs number particularly have to be taken in context. Yes, under Biden a lot of jobs have come back....after Governors told people they couldn't go to work or would be fired if they didn't get the vaccine. Now that those people are going back to work, they are being counted as 'added' jobs which they are not, they are in most cases, people returning to work. And under the same guise, Trump having 'lost' jobs due to Governors telling people they couldn't go to work seems a bit disingenuous.

They both have warts, but I try to look at both in a bigger picture overall and where we stand as a whole. The border and drugs is a MASSIVE issue. It has been an issue under every President in decades, but it has exploded exponentially during this administration and it is not for the better.
 
TBpup said:
The jobs number particularly have to be taken in context. Yes, under Biden a lot of jobs have come back....after Governors told people they couldn't go to work or would be fired if they didn't get the vaccine. Now that those people are going back to work, they are being counted as 'added' jobs which they are not, they are in most cases, people returning to work. And under the same guise, Trump having 'lost' jobs due to Governors telling people they couldn't go to work seems a bit disingenuous.

They both have warts, but I try to look at both in a bigger picture overall and where we stand as a whole. The border and drugs is a MASSIVE issue. It has been an issue under every President in decades, but it has exploded exponentially during this administration and it is not for the better.
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context matters.

But… you are a fascist supporting, racist supporting enemy of society!!!
Just tossing some green around to offset some of the selective condemnations of others. ;)
 
tlongII said:
I may be wrong, but isn't the unemployment rate tied to people who collect unemployment compensation? When they are no longer able to collect unemployment don't they drop out of the count?
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Yep.
It's based on workforce 'participation'. Like many government statistics, it's skewed to present an number in the best possible light.
 
TBpup said:
The jobs number particularly have to be taken in context. Yes, under Biden a lot of jobs have come back....after Governors told people they couldn't go to work or would be fired if they didn't get the vaccine. Now that those people are going back to work, they are being counted as 'added' jobs which they are not, they are in most cases, people returning to work. And under the same guise, Trump having 'lost' jobs due to Governors telling people they couldn't go to work seems a bit disingenuous.

They both have warts, but I try to look at both in a bigger picture overall and where we stand as a whole. The border and drugs is a MASSIVE issue. It has been an issue under every President in decades, but it has exploded exponentially during this administration and it is not for the better.
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Assuming what you say about immigration and drugs is true, why did Republicans kill border bill that was almost entirely Republican bill? And what exactly will Trump do to solve problems? What did he do in four years?
 
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