Notice Joe Cronin New GM

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
For all the Olshey bashing, many people here usually gave him way too much leeway when he would come up short on a trade. The excuse was always a, "Neil did them a solid for payback down the line." line of reasoning. Yet that payback never ever showed up down the line. The bottom line is that Neil was getting taken to the cleaners, and neither Neil or the guys fleecing him wanted to admit it. At least Cronin appears to be being honest and admitting he took less up front to open up opportunities in the off season. We might not like it, but at least it appears to be the truth. Better that than Neil pissing down our legs and telling us it's raining........
Click to expand...
At least with Olshey, on SOME of his deals there was upside... like, we gave up a lot for RoCo, but it's POSSIBLE he could have reverted to the player he was earlier in his career and been a 3-and-D guy. I feel a couple of his trades had this kind of possible (even if not PROBABLE) upside.

With the deals that Cronin did... there's no upside. They didn't make us better in the short term and they didn't help (IMO) moving into the future. In fact, the "best case" for them in terms of value would just put a drag on a rebuilding that the franchise should be doing. That's the reason I'm more upset about the Cronin deals than I was with many of Olshea's deals (although the last few years it was entirely clear Olshey was painting us into a corner/screwing us over in the intermediate- to long-terms).
 
Ed O said:
At least with Olshey, on SOME of his deals there was upside... like, we gave up a lot for RoCo, but it's POSSIBLE he could have reverted to the player he was earlier in his career and been a 3-and-D guy. I feel a couple of his trades had this kind of possible (even if not PROBABLE) upside.

With the deals that Cronin did... there's no upside. They didn't make us better in the short term and they didn't help (IMO) moving into the future. In fact, the "best case" for them in terms of value would just put a drag on a rebuilding that the franchise should be doing. That's the reason I'm more upset about the Cronin deals than I was with many of Olshea's deals (although the last few years it was entirely clear Olshey was painting us into a corner/screwing us over in the intermediate- to long-terms).
Click to expand...
We have financial flexibility that we didn't have before. That was obviously the goal.

I've seen nothing to indicate there was a high probability of getting better offers for the overpaid role players we had.

It was always going to be painful getting out of the corner Olshey painted us into. With all the Olshey bashing, it's funny that so many people are surprised by it.
 
Ed O said:
With the deals that Cronin did... there's no upside. They didn't make us better in the short term and they didn't help (IMO) moving into the future. In fact, the "best case" for them in terms of value would just put a drag on a rebuilding that the franchise should be doing. That's the reason I'm more upset about the Cronin deals than I was with many of Olshea's deals (although the last few years it was entirely clear Olshey was painting us into a corner/screwing us over in the intermediate- to long-terms).
Click to expand...

Of course there is an upside. There is less chance of continuing to go with an undersized, defensively deficient backcourt, there is a chance for Ant to get better with minutes and role, there is a chance of a balanced roster going forward and there is a chance of acquiring a good building block if the lottery is kind and / or the Blazers draft well.

At the very least, it ripped the band-aid of a plateaued roster to try and rebuild on the fly and if it fails, do a proper rebuild by trying to find a place that will give Dame a real chance at a ring and the team a real chance of a rebuild with trade assets.

So, frankly, I do not believe this is a proper assessment of the situation. With that being said, there is a very good chance that these moves will backfire, but saying there is no chance of an improvement from this reset is frankly, just wrong.
 
Ed O said:
At least with Olshey, on SOME of his deals there was upside... like, we gave up a lot for RoCo, but it's POSSIBLE he could have reverted to the player he was earlier in his career and been a 3-and-D guy. I feel a couple of his trades had this kind of possible (even if not PROBABLE) upside.

With the deals that Cronin did... there's no upside. They didn't make us better in the short term and they didn't help (IMO) moving into the future. In fact, the "best case" for them in terms of value would just put a drag on a rebuilding that the franchise should be doing. That's the reason I'm more upset about the Cronin deals than I was with many of Olshea's deals (although the last few years it was entirely clear Olshey was painting us into a corner/screwing us over in the intermediate- to long-terms).
Click to expand...

I think you have a reasonable take there. I don't agree with all of it but you are not just assuming and inferring things you (or I, or anybody) can't know

I do disagree about the upside argument though. CJ-Powell-Nance-RoCo not only didn't have any upside left to offer Portland, their talents and salaries had Portland flat-lined with nowhere good to go. Portland dumped 4 players who were not adding any meaningful wins, BUT, were hogging half of the payroll

just moving on from those players offers Portland options for upside that weren't available with them on the roster. Certainly it's fair to question if Cronin is astute enough to exploit those opportunities. I'm happy with the roster transition, but I have doubts about Cronin. And every time I hear about his alleged focus on Grant, my doubts grow
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
For all the Olshey bashing, many people here usually gave him way too much leeway when he would come up short on a trade. The excuse was always a, "Neil did them a solid for payback down the line." line of reasoning. Yet that payback never ever showed up down the line. The bottom line is that Neil was getting taken to the cleaners, and neither Neil or the guys fleecing him wanted to admit it. At least Cronin appears to be being honest and admitting he took less up front to open up opportunities in the off season. We might not like it, but at least it appears to be the truth. Better that than Neil pissing down our legs and telling us it's raining........
Click to expand...

So we fired a misleading Neil, now have an honest Neil, and you feel that's better?
 
Phatguysrule said:
We have financial flexibility that we didn't have before. That was obviously the goal.

I've seen nothing to indicate there was a high probability of getting better offers for the overpaid role players we had.

It was always going to be painful getting out of the corner Olshey painted us into. With all the Olshey bashing, it's funny that so many people are surprised by it.
Click to expand...

Financial flexibility to sign Evan Turner. Great.
 
Ed O said:
At least with Olshey, on SOME of his deals there was upside... like, we gave up a lot for RoCo, but it's POSSIBLE he could have reverted to the player he was earlier in his career and been a 3-and-D guy. I feel a couple of his trades had this kind of possible (even if not PROBABLE) upside.

With the deals that Cronin did... there's no upside. They didn't make us better in the short term and they didn't help (IMO) moving into the future. In fact, the "best case" for them in terms of value would just put a drag on a rebuilding that the franchise should be doing. That's the reason I'm more upset about the Cronin deals than I was with many of Olshea's deals (although the last few years it was entirely clear Olshey was painting us into a corner/screwing us over in the intermediate- to long-terms).
Click to expand...

The Turner contract and basically all of 2016 was so horrible Neil deserved to be fired then. DJJ was also a horrible signing. But outside those most his moves I agree with you, they often had potential upside. Cronin moves instead have no short or long term upside, and remove the veteran assets that could have provided trade value this offseason.

The only benefit Cronin supporters have is salary cap savings and luxury tax. Great...

How does that add talent in a non free agent market like Portland?
 
riverman said:
I think it's way early to judge what Joe is building here so far and if people think it doesn't make sense, that's because they don't know what was negotiated...didn't read the room, understand the parameters and accept that the pick might not convey.that things happen behind closed doors....I think Joe knew all of this and if he'd played so called "hardball" and pulled out of the CJ, Norm, Roco trades waiting for more value several things could have happened...CJ could have stayed in Portland or worse...had an achilles tear and gotten injured and lost value yet still ate up a big chunk of cap space....Roco could have walked for nothing and the big elephant in the room is that Chauncey and Joe wanted Josh Hart and Justice Winslow .....hell Hart had a 44 pt game for us ....CJ didn't do that in the playoffs....Joe took a swing and unfortunately the pick didn't convey but we still got an asset down the road for it . Joe hasn't even entered the free agency season or draft yet...he also has to repair relationships with GMs around the league and build some partners to work with...Neil didn't do that much. There are assets in good relationships with GMs.....Joe may not end up being a good GM but at this point it's way to early to turn him into the new Stotts dartboard....my 2 cents. It's all speculation at this point and I don't buy that talking heads would be better at it than a guy who's put in almost 2 decades in the league and is Chad Buchanon's best friend. Patience is where I'm at...I lost complete interest in the team when they were obviously tanking...don't like tanking. As to what Joe does....I'll know around Christmas what we've got going So far I like Hart and Winslow but I'd trade Nas (Elliot Williams fears)
Click to expand...
Awesome! Can't believe all the Debby Downers in here. Not saying you all have to be Happy Happy Joy Joy, but damn. Give the plan a chance. Go Blazers!
 
tykendo said:
Awesome! Can't believe all the Debby Downers in here. Not saying you all have to be Happy Happy Joy Joy, but damn. Give the plan a chance. Go Blazers!
Click to expand...
I'm now at the point where I just roll my eyes and laugh, Ty.
These guys aren't "debby downers", they just lack vision. Everything is "either/or" with some.
To say things like "there is no upside" with Winslow or Hart, just flabbergasts me.
To say we didn't improve is ridiculous when you consider the limited to zero upside with roco, & powell..They were nothings!
To just bust up the Dame/CJ thing is an accomplishment. Period.
And, oh by the way....
Have we really ever seen a healthy Damian Lillard?
We're about to...So is the rest of the NBA.
 
Last edited:
WesleyMatthews said:
So we fired a misleading Neil, now have an honest Neil, and you feel that's better?
Click to expand...
Nope. Read my post again. I was trying to say (nicely) that it’s waaayyy too early to get our panties in a bunch when we genuinely don’t know all the facts. That maybe we should see how it all plays out before slitting our throats. If any of us actually knew our shit, we’d have Cronin’s job, not Joe. You get to express your opinions whether we agree or not. I’m simply doing the same.
 
Wade Garrett said:
I'm now at the point where I just roll my eyes and laugh, Ty.
These guys aren't "debby downers", they just lack vision. Everything is "either/or" with some.
To say things like "there is no upside" with Winslow or Hart, just flabbergasts me.
To say we didn't improve is ridiculous when you consider the limited to zero upside with roco, & powell..They were nothings!
To just bust up the Dame/CJ thing is an accomplishment. Period.
And, oh by the way....
Have we really ever seen a healthy Damian Lillard?
We're about to.
Click to expand...
Damn Straight!
 
tykendo said:
Awesome! Can't believe all the Debby Downers in here. Not saying you all have to be Happy Happy Joy Joy, but damn. Give the plan a chance. Go Blazers!
Click to expand...
Hey Ty...
I had lunch with a buddy of mine who sometimes visits the PF and he witnessed Dame's workout the other day.
"Oh....My...Gawd..."
Is all he would say........(with a huge smile...)
So, in a way....THAT is also an addition to this team.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Hey Ty...
I had lunch with a buddy of mine who sometimes visits the PF and he witnessed Dame's workout the other day.
"Oh....My...Gawd..."
Is all he would say........(with a huge smile...)
So, in a way....THAT is also an addition to this team.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt Dame, EVER! Thanks Wade. Can't wait for the fun to begin.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Hey Ty...
I had lunch with a buddy of mine who sometimes visits the PF and he witnessed Dame's workout the other day.
"Oh....My...Gawd..."
Is all he would say........(with a huge smile...)
So, in a way....THAT is also an addition to this team.
Click to expand...
I do remember how Dame used to explode to the rim after driving the lane, and we haven't really seen much of that for a long time. I don't want to get too excited thinking about the true athleticism level of a healthy Dame, but it could be special.
 
I think it was a four game stretch where we saw Ant, Winslow, Hart and Nurk play beautiful two way ball together...so good they shut all 4 guys down to lose more....add a healthy Dame and we're going to be fine moving ahead with plenty of options this summer to add more talent. I hope they bring Eubanks back as a backup and with Williams, Watford Greg Brown and Nas...we're not too shabby .. add Grant and Ingles or another vet ...let Blevins and Elleby go...keep McLemore around for cheap. I think it'll turn out ok next season. Good chance a lot of those guys will also be gone but as it stands...I don't see the problem moving forward....can we replace Elleby or Blevins with a 32 year old Ed Davis as an insurance big? Bring Big Ed home to Portland...I know most folks won't want that but I like the guy.
 
riverman said:
I think it was a four game stretch where we saw Ant, Winslow, Hart and Nurk play beautiful two way ball together...so good they shut all 4 guys down to lose more....add a healthy Dame and we're going to be fine moving ahead with plenty of options this summer to add more talent. I hope they bring Eubanks back as a backup and with Williams, Watford Greg Brown and Nas...we're not too shabby .. add Grant and Ingles or another vet ...let Blevins and Elleby go...keep McLemore around for cheap. I think it'll turn out ok next season. Good chance a lot of those guys will also be gone but as it stands...I don't see the problem moving forward....can we replace Elleby or Blevins with a 32 year old Ed Davis as an insurance big? Bring Big Ed home to Portland...I know most folks won't want that but I like the guy.
Click to expand...

If Portland could grab a high prospect 4, I wouldn't be against giving Ed a vet minimum deal. I wouldn't expect him to contribute which is fine.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We have financial flexibility that we didn't have before. That was obviously the goal.

I've seen nothing to indicate there was a high probability of getting better offers for the overpaid role players we had.

It was always going to be painful getting out of the corner Olshey painted us into. With all the Olshey bashing, it's funny that so many people are surprised by it.
Click to expand...

We already provided you evidence. Caris Levert yielded more in a trade than Norman Powell and Roco on an expiring deal. If you polled NBA execs around the league, I'd bet at least 85% would rather have Powell at his contract than Levert.

You can keep ignoring this but the evidence isn't going to go away.

Cronin got taken for. That's just fair evaluation. He could have and should have gotten back more in those trades.
 
AmirIcon said:
We already provided you evidence. Caris Levert yielded more in a trade than Norman Powell and Roco on an expiring deal. If you polled NBA execs around the league, I'd bet at least 85% would rather have Powell at his contract than Levert.

You can keep ignoring this but the evidence isn't going to go away.

Cronin got taken for. That's just fair evaluation. He could have and should have gotten back more in those trades.
Click to expand...
Oh good. Walk me through this. How would we be better off? Why would we want Rubio at $26 million per year? How does this help us achieve the goals of gaining financial flexibility?
 
AmirIcon said:
We already provided you evidence. Caris Levert yielded more in a trade than Norman Powell and Roco on an expiring deal. If you polled NBA execs around the league, I'd bet at least 85% would rather have Powell at his contract than Levert.

You can keep ignoring this but the evidence isn't going to go away.
Click to expand...

an unfounded assertion about "85%" is not "evidence"

it was 'reported', before the trade, that Cleveland really wanted to add size in the back court because of Garland and Sexton both being small guards. LeVert provides the size at 6'6. Powell wouldn't. LeVert is also a much better ball-handler and passer.

that's a bad comp for the Blazer trade because there is no way (99%) that Cleveland would have paid a 1st round pick to add Powell to Garland and Sexton
 
Phatguysrule said:
Oh good. Walk me through this. How would we be better off? Why would we want Rubio at $26 million per year? How does this help us achieve the goals of gaining financial flexibility?
Click to expand...

Why would we want Eric Bledsoe? Rubio is an expiring deal.
 
Where’s the Dame wants to play with Ayton and can we get him thread??
 
AmirIcon said:
Why would we want Eric Bledsoe? Rubio is an expiring deal.
Click to expand...
Got it. So this deal is very similar and that's assuming they would want to do it. Which, I'm not convinced of.

You have to really reach to be pissed off about that IMO. And not that I love the Clippers deal. I don't. But these kind of moves are what those guys (with those contracts) were worth. And we don't know the details of the negotiations.

We weren't going to make a needle moving deal based on the players we traded. It just wasn't going to happen unless things all fell the right way.

And frankly, I think Cronin did a pretty good job at getting a decent shot at moving the needle by getting a chance at grabbing a lotto pick. It didn't work out, but at least he swung for it.
 
So is right now a time for GMs and assistant GMs to huddle together and discuss strategy, keeping their thoughts in house or are GMs whose teams are out of the playoffs (26 of the 30) calling each other and talking about potential deals and already gauging the value of their picks and the players that might have been made expendable because of where they're picking?
 
blazerkor said:
So is right now a time for GMs and assistant GMs to huddle together and discuss strategy, keeping their thoughts in house or are GMs whose teams are out of the playoffs (26 of the 30) calling each other and talking about potential deals and already gauging the value of their picks and the players that might have been made expendable because of where they're picking?
Click to expand...

Probably some of that but my guess is that things don't start moving till after the draft combines and workouts
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top