Politics The Joe Biden Thread

[jonnyboy]

My guess would be Michelle Obama but I agree about Joe's senility getting worse. I actually think Joe would be relieved to have somebody else taking over the job.

It would have to be a relief for him, that amount of stress is too much for that advanced of age. For the Democratic Party it just isn’t a wise move to have him anywhere near the Oval Office any longer, or to run him against anyone with any speaking experience whether they’re terrible candidates or not. His condition is becoming undeniable at this point even to his biggest lapdogs.

 

[jonnyboy]

Right-wing fantasy right there.

Biden isn't particularly in decline. He's very old and getting older, sure. But he's always been a bit incoherent, partly due to compensating for the stutter, partly due to his fondness for out-of-context jokes and side-comments that only he understands ("God save the queen, man!"), and of course the sort of verbal diarrhea that every politician suffers from occasionally.

There's no such thing as being deemed unfit to run. Might as well ask what happens if it turns out he was actually born in Kenya.

barfo

It’s hard for two people to have a discussion when they live in different dimensions. I’ll just step away from this one.

 

[barfo]

I think Joe is slippin'...I don't think he's incompetent, but I think he's exhausted and it's taking it's toll. The deep state has clearly forgotten to budget for body doubles for Joe who can travel around and change time zones without it catching up to him.

I don't see it myself. It's a taxing job, and I sure wouldn't want it as an 80-something-old. But if you look beyond the clips of Joe fumbling his words or stumbling on the stairs, you can find plenty of examples of him discussing complicated subjects at length without notes. There's zero evidence that he's screwing things up by being old (like ordering nukes dropped on Calgary or firing the secretary of state because he confused him with his butler or whatever). The supposed evidence that's he's screwing things up generally amounts to 'he's a democrat'.

barfo

 

[barfo]

It’s hard for two people to have a discussion when they live in different dimensions. I’ll just step away from this one.

What makes you think we are both people?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Seems like same old Joe to me. He's always been awkward and uncoordinated. He's always said stupid shit...

But he's always been pretty good at debating and getting his point across and overall he's generally still fine at that.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What makes you think we are both people?

barfo

Biden and Barfo both start with B.

 

[Hoopguru]

I think Joe is slippin'...I don't think he's incompetent, but I think he's exhausted and it's taking it's toll. The deep state has clearly forgotten to budget for body doubles for Joe who can travel around and change time zones without it catching up to him.

I agree...I asked my Doc a while back if he thought Joe slipping, he said he wasn't totally sure as he's not seen enough of him, but what he did mentioned, is he noticed that when he walked he had his arms down with a waddle. That can be a sign of dementia in old age, is what he mentioned.

 

[jonnyboy]

Seems like same old Joe to me. He's always been awkward and uncoordinated. He's always said stupid shit...

But he's always been pretty good at debating and getting his point across and overall he's generally still fine at that.

I don’t recall him debating anyone or anything since last election. And even then it was like pulling teeth to get him out of the basement. We barely got to see anything more than some town hall gaffes. It’s been years since he’s legitimately debated.

 

[jonnyboy]

I agree...I asked my Doc a while back if he thought Joe slipping, he said he wasn't totally sure as he's not seen enough of him, but what he did mentioned, is he noticed that when he walked he had his arms down with a waddle. That can be a sign of dementia in old age, is what he mentioned.

He has a strong resemblance to an old friend Bob I used to farm caretake for. Like old age or anything aside, they just looked alike. When Bob started to decline it happened really quick. He was always the sharpest old bird and when his mind finally started to go I knew he didn’t have much longer. Seeing Biden gives me a striking nostalgia for Bob. Like politics and everything aside, I feel like Biden is getting closer than a lot of people realize.

 

[STOMP]

Seems like same old Joe to me. He's always been awkward and uncoordinated. He's always said stupid shit...

But he's always been pretty good at debating and getting his point across and overall he's generally still fine at that.

he's proven pretty good at governing too. Amazing the major legislative accomplishments he's presided over with such slim margins in congress. Inflation is down. Illegal immigration down. Unemployment down. GDP & wages up. Investment in American manufacturing is also way up. While I know some (especially the news media) yern for the daily drama of the previous performer clown, I much prefer the boring competence and production

STOMP

 

[crandc]

When he starts telling people to inject bleach I will worry.

 

[crandc]

At a Little League baseball field in Virginia, where children play ball, a Trump supporter put up two huge banners. One read Fuck Biden. The other depicted a giant penis with Biden's face superimposed on it and message Biden Sucks.

Because trans people are sexualizing children, right?

 

[riverman]

At a Little League baseball field in Virginia, where children play ball, a Trump supporter put up two huge banners. One read Fuck Biden. The other depicted a giant penis with Biden's face superimposed on it and message Biden Sucks.

Because trans people are sexualizing children, right?

I suspect it's because those hard right wingers are secretly in the middle of personal homosexual or gender panic themselves. Sexual insecurities just define all the homophobes who populate that party.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Get rid of these corporate "centrists." Joe always governed like a Republican. He had some very good wins early on and then stripped them away and that's why his polling is taking such a hit.

I know the party would never let a real progressive but I actually think Newsom would be a good option if they're trying to win and need a new face to the party. Smug, hypocritical, and too centrist for my taste but he would be better than anyone else I see in the party.

I'll be voting for Cornel West if he's on the ballot and if not, I'll take Marianne Williamson.

 

[barfo]

He had some very good wins early on and then stripped them away and that's why his polling is taking such a hit.

What did he win and then strip away?

I'll be voting for Cornel West if he's on the ballot and if not, I'll take Marianne Williamson.

West is running to help Trump get elected, er, I mean, as a Green Party candidate in the general election. Williamson is running, if you want to call it that, in the Democratic party primary.
They won't be on the same ballot, so you can potentially vote for both.

barfo

 

[Sheldon Shape]

What did he win and then strip away?

Among other things, the child tax credit. It was such a productive program and was inexplicably ripped away.

Also, he promised $15/per hour and won off it. Then didn't fight for it. Also, his lackluster approach on student loan debt. He could have gone another avenue so that it wouldn't be challenged by the courts and he chose not to. Like so many Democrats, he says he's for things and then conveniently a couple of characters in his party pop up against it without recourse against those that defy his agenda.

West is running to help Trump get elected, er, I mean, as a Green Party candidate in the general election. Williamson is running, if you want to call it that, in the Democratic party primary.
They won't be on the same ballot, so you can potentially vote for both.

barfo

If the Dems don't want people voting for West, they should put forth better policies. Can't keep dragging your feet on helping Americans and scaring everyone by making the other side the boogeyman. Just offer better policies and stick to your promises.

 

[barfo]

Among other things, the child tax credit. It was such a productive program and was inexplicably ripped away.

Actually, it's pretty explicable. The increase in the child tax care was a temporary increase passed as part of the post-covid stimulus bill.
It's certainly fair to ask why the increase shouldn't be permanent, but that question should be directed to Congress, not Biden.

Also, he promised $15/per hour and won off it. Then didn't fight for it. Also, his lackluster approach on student loan debt. He could have gone another avenue so that it wouldn't be challenged by the courts and he chose not to.

Do tell. What is the executive-action avenue to forgiving student loan debt that can't be challenged in court?

Like so many Democrats, he says he's for things and then conveniently a couple of characters in his party pop up against it without recourse against those that defy his agenda.

Right, Sinema and Manchin are creations of Biden. He created them so that he could make his legislative agenda fail. That makes sense.

If the Dems don't want people voting for West, they should put forth better policies. Can't keep dragging your feet on helping Americans and scaring everyone by making the other side the boogeyman. Just offer better policies and stick to your promises.

The other side is the boogeyman, in this particular case.

Also, do you really believe that West or Williamson, if elected, would be able to have Congress enact everything they want?
Biden has very little control over Congress - those two would have less than zero.

barfo

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Actually, it's pretty explicable. The increase in the child tax care was a temporary increase passed as part of the post-covid stimulus bill.
It's certainly fair to ask why the increase shouldn't be permanent, but that question should be directed to Congress, not Biden.

Is Biden not the leader of the country? He never asked for more of it, thus he never got it.

Do tell. What is the executive-action avenue to forgiving student loan debt that can't be challenged in court?

Wasn't it Biden that spearheaded the exclusion of student debt being available for discharge through Bankruptcy? For the first two years of his administration Biden was rejecting and attacking the idea he could even cancel student debt. He only made this promise right before the mid terms. Instead of bypassing it unilaterally using executive authority, Biden chose to negotiate with Republicans, making major concessions — including his own power to keep the student loan payment pause in place — to raise the ceiling for just two years.

Right, Sinema and Manchin are creations of Biden. He created them so that he could make his legislative agenda fail. That makes sense.

You're welcome to believe in the Scooby-Doo storytelling the Dems keep giving you, but I won't. They always have a convenient story to tell of why they can't do something 6 months after they promised it. $15 an hour. Nope. George Floyd act? Nope. Student loans? Nope. Gotta go through the bullshit parliamentarian for that too.

Manchin's daughter was under investigation. Did Biden use that to get Manchin on his side? Nope. He just said how great he and Sinema were as negotiators.

Naive to think otherwise.

The other side is the boogeyman, in this particular case.
Do you really believe that West or Williamson, if elected, would be able to have Congress enact everything they want?
Biden has very little control over Congress - those two would have less than zero.

barfo

Of course not. Neither will be president. But they would use executive action go get what they want. Not set up traps for themselves and act surprised when their promise can't be kept.

 

[barfo]

Is Biden not the leader of the country? He never asked for more of it, thus he never got it.



Wasn't it Biden that spearheaded the exclusion of student debt being available for discharge through Bankruptcy? For the first two years of his administration Biden was rejecting and attacking the idea he could even cancel student debt. He only made this promise right before the mid terms. Instead of bypassing it unilaterally using executive authority, Biden chose to negotiate with Republicans, making major concessions — including his own power to keep the student loan payment pause in place — to raise the ceiling for just two years.



You're welcome to believe in the Scooby-Doo storytelling the Dems keep giving you, but I won't. They always have a convenient story to tell of why they can't do something 6 months after they promised it. $15 an hour. Nope. George Floyd act? Nope. Student loans? Nope. Gotta go through the bullshit parliamentarian for that too.

Manchin's daughter was under investigation. Did Biden use that to get Manchin on his side? Nope. He just said how great he and Sinema were as negotiators.

Naive to think otherwise.



Of course not. Neither will be president. But they would use executive action go get what they want. Not set up traps for themselves and act surprised when their promise can't be kept.

I suppose if you believe that Presidents are all-powerful, and nobody else has any power, then what you say makes sense.

Executive orders are limited in scope by separation of powers - that's why Biden's student loan forgiveness didn't work. I suppose you believe he intended for it to be overturned, but you didn't explain how he could have set it up, had he wanted to, such that the Supremes would have accepted it.

Any executive order by a President West or a President Williamson would be even more likely to be overturned by the current supreme court.

It's a bit naive to think that all it takes to get things done is Presidential desire. Although, I guess you are also suggesting that the President should use the Justice Dept to get what he wants, Trump-style?

barfo

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I suppose if you believe that Presidents are all-powerful, and nobody else has any power, then what you say makes sense.

Executive orders are limited in scope by separation of powers - that's why Biden's student loan forgiveness didn't work. I suppose you believe he intended for it to be overturned, but you didn't explain how he could have set it up, had he wanted to, such that the Supremes would have accepted it.

Any executive order by a President West or a President Williamson would be even more likely to be overturned by the current supreme court.

It's a bit naive to think that all it takes to get things done is Presidential desire. Although, I guess you are also suggesting that the President should use the Justice Dept to get what he wants, Trump-style?

barfo

Sure, FDR style. He didn't make excuses. He was a leader. He fought for everything he talked about. And the people kept voting for him. Bernie too. Joe? Not so much.

It makes sense though when you take account that Repubs and Dems have the same donors. Joe went to Wall Street and told them, "nothing will fundamentally change."

He was right about that. Him and Trump aren't that different when it comes to policy.

If someone fucked my agenda, you better know I'm going to leverage their daughter's corruption to get what I want. But Joey never cared much about all that he preached. He spent almost half his administration telling everyone he didn't think he could do anything on student loans.

That's Joe Biden for you. Is he better than Trump? Sure, but literally anyone would be. Stop putting your faith in corporate Democrats. They take their money from the same people Republicans do.

 

[barfo]

Sure, FDR style. He didn't make excuses. He was a leader. He fought for everything he talked about. And the people kept voting for him. Bernie too. Joe? Not so much.

And you knew who you were then
girls were girls and men were men
Mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

It makes sense though when you take account that Repubs and Dems have the same donors. Joe went to Wall Street and told them, "nothing will fundamentally change."

It's a bit like why you rob a bank - that's where the money is.

He was right about that. Him and Trump aren't that different when it comes to policy.

I suppose it depends on the scale and axes you are looking at. If you want a revolutionary change in government, Joe certainly isn't your man.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

If someone fucked my agenda, you better know I'm going to leverage their daughter's corruption to get what I want. But Joey never cared much about all that he preached.

Since a lot of Joe's brand now is pushing back on "the ends justify the means", you are right that he's not your guy if you want to achieve your political goals corruptly.

He spent almost half his administration telling everyone he didn't think he could do anything on student loans.

And he was in fact correct. Is telling the truth a bad thing?

That's Joe Biden for you. Is he better than Trump? Sure, but literally anyone would be.

I'd rather have "better than Trump" than Trump.

Stop putting your faith in corporate Democrats. They take their money from the same people Republicans do.

And they eat the same food as Republicans do. I guess they are identical.

It isn't a matter of faith. It's a matter of being realistic about what the actual choices are, rather than fantasizing about Bernie being elected or FDR coming back from the grave.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

And you knew who you were then
girls were girls and men were men
Mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again



It's a bit like why you rob a bank - that's where the money is.



I suppose it depends on the scale and axes you are looking at. If you want a revolutionary change in government, Joe certainly isn't your man.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world



Since a lot of Joe's brand now is pushing back on "the ends justify the means", you are right that he's not your guy if you want to achieve your political goals corruptly.



And he was in fact correct. Is telling the truth a bad thing?



I'd rather have "better than Trump" than Trump.



And they eat the same food as Republicans do. I guess they are identical.

It isn't a matter of faith. It's a matter of being realistic about what the actual choices are, rather than fantasizing about Bernie being elected or FDR coming back from the grave.

barfo

We certainly shouldn't push for something better. Just accept it like the plebs we are.

 

[barfo]

We certainly shouldn't push for something better. Just accept it like the plebs we are.

We absolutely should push for something better. There are lots of ways to do that.

Voting for Cornell West or Marianne Williamson for President is not one of those ways. They can't win, or make things better, but they can sure help make things worse.

If you want the Democratic party to be more progressive, great! I'm 100% on board with that.

The way to do that is to convince the median voter to be more progressive. Politicians will follow.

It's that simple, and that difficult. Protest votes don't move the general population.

And the effect of minor party candidates on the Democratic candidate is the exact opposite of what you want - their calculation, when faced with a minor candidate on the left is "ok, polling says that candidate is going to remove X% of what would be my likely voters in a 2-person race, so I need to pick up at least X/2% centrist Republican voters to make up for it. So how can I appeal better to centrist Republican voters?"

It's not that they won't try to win the votes back from your fringe candidate - but they won't try very hard, because adopting part or all of the fringe candidate's platform will turn off the non-progressive Democratic voters (and any crossover voters), and those are unfortunately a lot more numerous than the fringe party voters.

barfo

 

[Road Ratt]

We certainly shouldn't push for something better. Just accept it like the plebs we are.

The problem is, you currently can't tell the giant douche party from the turd sandwich party.

 

[crandc]

The problem is, you currently can't tell the giant douche party from turd sandwich party.

The party that wants to outlaw abortion and birth control ... End all civil rights for LGBTQ people... Make it harder to vote...ban books...deny global warming...cut taxes for the rich and food aid for the poor... Supports Russia over Ukraine.... I can't afford to say makes no difference.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Since a lot of Joe's brand now is pushing back on "the ends justify the means", you are right that he's not your guy if you want to achieve your political goals corruptly.

lulz the whole political system is corrupt. What a weird thing to say.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We absolutely should push for something better. There are lots of ways to do that.

Voting for Cornell West or Marianne Williamson for President is not one of those ways. They can't win, or make things better, but they can sure help make things worse.

If you want the Democratic party to be more progressive, great! I'm 100% on board with that.

The way to do that is to convince the median voter to be more progressive. Politicians will follow.

It's that simple, and that difficult. Protest votes don't move the general population.

And the effect of minor party candidates on the Democratic candidate is the exact opposite of what you want - their calculation, when faced with a minor candidate on the left is "ok, polling says that candidate is going to remove X% of what would be my likely voters in a 2-person race, so I need to pick up at least X/2% centrist Republican voters to make up for it. So how can I appeal better to centrist Republican voters?"

It's not that they won't try to win the votes back from your fringe candidate - but they won't try very hard, because adopting part or all of the fringe candidate's platform will turn off the non-progressive Democratic voters (and any crossover voters), and those are unfortunately a lot more numerous than the fringe party voters.

barfo

That's going to take a strong public education system.

Not looking good...

 

[jonnyboy]

When he starts telling people to inject bleach I will worry.

It’s fun to see some of this debunked Trump folklore still making the rounds in the far off corners of the internet. The fables of Orange Man never disappoint.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

If you want the Democratic party to be more progressive, great! I'm 100% on board with that.

The way to do that is to convince the median voter to be more progressive. Politicians will follow.

It's that simple, and that difficult. Protest votes don't move the general population.

This is a lie perpetuated by the mainstream media. 80% of the American public wants medicare for all. The majority of the American public is WITH Bernie on the issues. Free education, paid family leave, etc.

Why they didn't vote for him? Because the media keeps scaring people like you and saying progressives are not electable. Bernie is not electable. Marianne Williamson is not electable. And unfortunately it works.

Bernie would have destroyed Trump in '16. He was 20 points above him and Hillary. Because his proposals are notoriously popular. But the media scares the public by saying these guys aren't electable. It's absolute nonsense.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is a lie perpetuated by the mainstream media. 80% of the American public wants medicare for all. The majority of the American public is WITH Bernie on the issues. Free education, paid family leave, etc.

Why they didn't vote for him? Because the media keeps scaring people like you and saying progressives are not electable. Bernie is not electable. Marianne Williamson is not electable. And unfortunately it works.

Bernie would have destroyed Trump in '16. He was 20 points above him and Hillary. Because his proposals are notoriously popular. But the media scares the public by saying these guys aren't electable. It's absolute nonsense.

Agreed. Sanders would have beaten Trump in 2016. The media partnership with Hillary was incredibly powerful, and that's how she won the primary.