Politics The Joe Biden Thread (1 Viewer)

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barfo said:
What's that you say? 75% of new jobs are in the private sector? Sounds like a lot of private sector growth happening.

What was Donald Herbert Hoover Trump's record on jobs again? It was negative 3 million jobs, right?

barfo
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It’s great when single mothers have to work 3 jobs though. That’s 3 new jobs! Economy booming.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Funding and supporting the defense of Ukraine is what the good guys do.
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This is just a random statement that doesn’t mean anything and has no factual backing.
Phatguysrule said:
Israel is more complicated.
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What’s complicated are the meandering, loose justifications when trying to distance the Biden administration from their active funding of a genocide. If you look at it from a moral stance, it becomes alot less complicated.
 
jonnyboy said:
This is just a random statement that doesn’t mean anything and has no factual backing.
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It's my opinion, based on observations from a moral stance.

jonnyboy said:
What’s complicated are the meandering, loose justifications when trying to distance the Biden administration from their active funding of a genocide. If you look at it from a moral stance, it becomes alot less complicated.
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For me, honestly looking at it from a moral stance is what makes it complicated.

Israel shouldn't have to deal with constant attacks from Palestinians. However, Palestinians have very little control over their country, and before the recent attacks the general population wanted Hamas gone.

In fact, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think the initial attack was an effort to goad Israel into a response that would force Palestinians to support Hamas in greater numbers.

Israel should certainly not be targeting civilians. That's without question.

Cutting off funding is tricky and could cost us the region if Israel were to fall (or be compelled to use nukes). Either of which would further destabilize the entire world.

The way I would deal with it is the way we should have dealt with Afghanistan (IMO). Move American troops in to offer aid and and build bases, schools and hospitals. Surgically remove Hamas and other terrorist elements. Encourage Israel to help in all aspects.

Offer military protection for those schools and hospitals. Encourage people to attend but do not force them to attend. Any attacks on those schools or hospitals or the people attending should be investigated and the perpetrators removed from the population.

Remove the desperation from the system and educate Palestinians on democracy. Plan on being there for at least 30 years to defend schools and hospitals and build up infrastructure.

Show them there is a better way. Win hearts and minds.

Once again, it's more complicated than Ukraine. In Ukraine we just need to help them defend themselves without provoking a nuclear response from Russia. If we do that long enough Ukraine can win.
 
jonnyboy said:
There are actual, tangible, real life issues and policies that affect people outside of your own personal disdain for one man’s unsavory character flaws. It may not be ideal, but some people are willing to sacrifice good character in order to afford groceries and a place to live, or not have to watch an old racist stumble around while his handlers push him (and us) down the path to ww3.
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Groceries and rent won't be any cheaper under Trump.
 
jonnyboy said:
There are actual, tangible, real life issues and policies that affect people outside of your own personal disdain for one man’s unsavory character flaws. It may not be ideal, but some people are willing to sacrifice good character in order to afford groceries and a place to live, or not have to watch an old racist stumble around while his handlers push him (and us) down the path to ww3.
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Trump was advocating, in fact pleading, for NEGATIVE interest rates... What do you think that would have done to inflation?

Do you think cheaper money for the wealthy would have made bread and rents cheaper? Because if so, I have a property you might be interested in...
 
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AmirIcon said:
So why is he calling everyone antisemitic then? He's the President. Show some leadership.
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I don't recall him calling me antisemitic.

In fact, he never calls me at all. Guess he's too "busy".

barfo
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's my opinion, based on observations from a moral stance.



For me, honestly looking at it from a moral stance is what makes it complicated.

Israel shouldn't have to deal with constant attacks from Palestinians. However, Palestinians have very little control over their country, and before the recent attacks the general population wanted Hamas gone.

In fact, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think the initial attack was an effort to goad Israel into a response that would force Palestinians to support Hamas in greater numbers.

Israel should certainly not be targeting civilians. That's without question.

Cutting off funding is tricky and could cost us the region if Israel were to fall (or be compelled to use nukes). Either of which would further destabilize the entire world.

The way I would deal with it is the way we should have dealt with Afghanistan (IMO). Move American troops in to offer aid and and build bases, schools and hospitals. Surgically remove Hamas and other terrorist elements. Encourage Israel to help in all aspects.

Offer military protection for those schools and hospitals. Encourage people to attend but do not force them to attend. Any attacks on those schools or hospitals or the people attending should be investigated and the perpetrators removed from the population.

Remove the desperation from the system and educate Palestinians on democracy. Plan on being there for at least 30 years to defend schools and hospitals and build up infrastructure.

Show them there is a better way. Win hearts and minds.

Once again, it's more complicated than Ukraine. In Ukraine we just need to help them defend themselves without provoking a nuclear response from Russia. If we do that long enough Ukraine can win.
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This reads like something from The Onion. No offense, brother.
 
barfo said:
I don't recall him calling me antisemitic.

In fact, he never calls me at all. Guess he's too "busy".

barfo
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Oh, that's just because you're one of the few who is content with ethnic cleansing and genocide.
 
AmirIcon said:
Oh, that's just because you're one of the few who is content with ethnic cleansing and genocide.
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Your assumption about me is incorrect, but then so is your apparent belief that Biden has called anyone who opposes his policies antisemitic. He hasn't.

barfo
 
AmirIcon said:
Protestors - he has. But Donald Trump exists, so let's give Biden a pass and keep focusing on the boogeyman Trump. Sure - that argument is as tired and old as our policy on Palestine.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-condemns-antisemitic-protests-palestine-columbia-university/
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Condemning antisemitism isn't the same thing as condemning all protests/protestors.
Unless you think all protestors are antisemites? I don't and I really doubt he does either.
Of course, if you think no protestors are antisemites, then you have a legit beef with what he said.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Condemning antisemitism isn't the same thing as condemning all protests/protestors.
Unless you think all protestors are antisemites? I don't and I really doubt he does either.
Of course, if you think no protestors are antisemites, then you have a legit beef with what he said.

barfo
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Except nobody is really buying that sans the gullible folks at MSNBC and yourself. Check the polling on Biden's handling of the issue.

He'd be the first self-proclaimed Zionist who doesn't think the protests are antisemitic.

Unless you think he's lying about being a Zionist and he's just a good old fashioned racist.

Either way, there's no leadership.
 
AmirIcon said:
Except nobody is really buying that sans the gullible folks at MSNBC and yourself. Check the polling on Biden's handling of the issue.

He'd be the first self-proclaimed Zionist who doesn't think the protests are antisemitic.

Unless you think he's lying about being a Zionist and he's just a good old fashioned racist.

Either way, there's no leadership.
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Leadership doesn't mean just agreeing with you, you know.

It's not easy to please everyone on this issue. In fact, it's not easy to please anyone.

As for polling, I'm sure he pays attention to it. Seems like something a politician would do, right?

I think you are likely wrong about all Zionists thinking the protests are antisemitic.

barfo
 
AmirIcon said:
Same. I'm so sick of people ignoring the absolute mess right now because of Trump.
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You want us to ignore something that is sure to make the 'absolute mess right now' much much worse? How does that make sense?

barfo
 
barfo said:
You want us to ignore something that is sure to make the 'absolute mess right now' much much worse? How does that make sense?

barfo
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Our priorities are clearly not the same. Mine is an unjust genocide.

Yours is predictably Donald Trump.

There's little more to discuss. Let's leave it at that.
 
For the record, all genocide is unjust.

Who is more likely to negotiate a cease fire, Biden or Trump? Secretary of state is in Middle East and reportedly Israel is agreeing onore concessions for a cease fire. When asked about his plans for Middle East, Trump just says war would not happen if he was president.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's my opinion, based on observations from a moral stance.



For me, honestly looking at it from a moral stance is what makes it complicated.

Israel shouldn't have to deal with constant attacks from Palestinians. However, Palestinians have very little control over their country, and before the recent attacks the general population wanted Hamas gone.

In fact, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think the initial attack was an effort to goad Israel into a response that would force Palestinians to support Hamas in greater numbers.

Israel should certainly not be targeting civilians. That's without question.

Cutting off funding is tricky and could cost us the region if Israel were to fall (or be compelled to use nukes). Either of which would further destabilize the entire world.

The way I would deal with it is the way we should have dealt with Afghanistan (IMO). Move American troops in to offer aid and and build bases, schools and hospitals. Surgically remove Hamas and other terrorist elements. Encourage Israel to help in all aspects.

Offer military protection for those schools and hospitals. Encourage people to attend but do not force them to attend. Any attacks on those schools or hospitals or the people attending should be investigated and the perpetrators removed from the population.

Remove the desperation from the system and educate Palestinians on democracy. Plan on being there for at least 30 years to defend schools and hospitals and build up infrastructure.

Show them there is a better way. Win hearts and minds.

Once again, it's more complicated than Ukraine. In Ukraine we just need to help them defend themselves without provoking a nuclear response from Russia. If we do that long enough Ukraine can win.
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IMO, this post is right on and I do believe it's the way it will unfold. I think Egypt, Saudi and other Arab countries will support this as well. Id rather see GAZA end up as South Korea versus North Korea.
 
AmirIcon said:
Our priorities are clearly not the same. Mine is an unjust genocide.

Yours is predictably Donald Trump.

There's little more to discuss. Let's leave it at that.
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The genocide must stop. Preferably without sparking a world war or losing our foot hold in the middle east causing even more pain and suffering... And likely more genocide.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The genocide must stop. Preferably without sparking a world war or losing our foot hold in the middle east causing even more pain and suffering... And likely more genocide.
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There's a genocide happening because of our involvement. Not because we're not involved enough.
 
AmirIcon said:
There's a genocide happening because of our involvement. Not because we're not involved enough.
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And if we pulled all support from Israel you'd very likely see an even larger genocide likely preceded by a nuclear exchange (and that likely wouldn't even stop the current genocide, since Israel could continue likely until completely eradicating all Palestinians in Gaza even without US support).

We have to convince Israel to stop. We can't force them to stop (short of just moving into Gaza with large US forces and remaining as human shields). It's just more complicated than that.

That's why I propose that we engage in nation building and encourage Israel to help.

And I have absolutely no loyalty to Israel for political or religious reasons. I am 100% opposed to their current actions against Palestinians.

That's just the way I see the geopolitical risks.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
And if we pulled all support from Israel you'd very likely see an even larger genocide likely preceded by a nuclear exchange.

We have to convince Israel to stop. We can't force them to stop. It's just more complicated than that.

And I have absolutely no loyalty to Israel for political or religious reasons. That's just the way I see the geopolitical risks.
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Nonsense. Pull weapons sales/support to Israel and see how quick they find a resolution with their neighbors ala Egypt.

America backs 73% of current dictatorships and they have a long history of overthrowing democracy around the world. They have no legitimate place to lecture the world on moral supremacy when their own people are suffering and having to live on the streets.
 
AmirIcon said:
Nonsense. Pull weapons sales/support to Israel and see how quick they find a resolution with their neighbors ala Egypt.

America backs 73% of current dictatorships and they have a long history of overthrowing democracy around the world. They have no legitimate place to lecture the world on moral supremacy when their own people are suffering and having to live on the streets.
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I'm not advocating for support of any dictators. I'm advocating for what I think would be the best move for the US, Palestinians, and Israel. Not to mention the world.

We can't control or change What mistakes we've made in the past. All we can do is start making the right decisions for the right reasons now. And I'll continue advocating for us to do exactly that.
 
AmirIcon said:
Nonsense. Pull weapons sales/support to Israel and see how quick they find a resolution with their neighbors ala Egypt.
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I think that is a fantasy. Israel surely appreciates all the money and weapons we send them, but they wouldn't collapse if we stopped. They'd simply have to spend more of their own money on weapons. And they absolutely would do exactly that.

It would make us less complicit (still plenty complicit, since we've funded them all these years up till now) and we might feel better about that, but it wouldn't make Israel back off.

It might in fact make things worse, by making Israel feel more isolated.

We should do the experiment, though, because we shouldn't become any more complicit than we already are. I just don't think it will work to restrain Israel.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I think that is a fantasy. Israel surely appreciates all the money and weapons we send them, but they wouldn't collapse if we stopped. They'd simply have to spend more of their own money on weapons. And they absolutely would do exactly that.

It would make us less complicit (still plenty complicit, since we've funded them all these years up till now) and we might feel better about that, but it wouldn't make Israel back off.

It might in fact make things worse, by making Israel feel more isolated.

We should do the experiment, though, because we shouldn't become any more complicit than we already are. I just don't think it will work to restrain Israel.

barfo
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China would love to sell weapons to Israel.
 
Phatguysrule said:
And if we pulled all support from Israel you'd very likely see an even larger genocide likely preceded by a nuclear exchange (and that likely wouldn't even stop the current genocide, since Israel could continue likely until completely eradicating all Palestinians in Gaza even without US support).

We have to convince Israel to stop. We can't force them to stop (short of just moving into Gaza with large US forces and remaining as human shields). It's just more complicated than that.

That's why I propose that we engage in nation building and encourage Israel to help.

And I have absolutely no loyalty to Israel for political or religious reasons. I am 100% opposed to their current actions against Palestinians.

That's just the way I see the geopolitical risks.
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yep, The surrounding Arab states in that effort. Several already acknowledge Israel's right to exist and see opportunity for future economic growth and balance against Iran. The Iranian people want out from under the bondage of the religious mullahs ruling their country. Iran used to be a very prosperous and peaceful country util the fanatics took over.
 
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